[Bf-webcontent] Re: Menu nearly done

[Johannes Langlotz]

Hi Bart (NL),

I have no problem with the list. I just see how many problems it brings 
with it. I started to create websites when I was 17 and I learnd one 
thing fast: SIMPLE! The visitor does not see how it is made! It just 
should work.

 > Nesting lists inside each other is valid in this context I believe.

Yes it is. But shouldn't the b3d list look like this:

<ul>
   <li>About Blender
     <ul>
       <li>Features</li>
       <li>Gallery</li>
       <li>Testimonials</li>
       <li>Applications</li>
       <li>Requirements</li>
     </ul>
   </li>
   <li>Downloads
     <ul>
       <li>Blender</li>
       <li>....</li>
     </ul>
   </li>
   <li>InfoCenter
     <ul>
       <li>...</li>
     </ul>
   </li>
   <li>...</li>
</ul>

What I mean with "one list" is: ONE mainlist with several sublists! This 
list should represent the whole menu tree. Now there is one list for 
"About Blender" one for "Downloads" one for "InfoCenter"...

I want to emphasize again: I am not against the list! I am against the 
complexity of javascript and css and the resulting browser problems!


Johannes




Bart Veldhuizen schrieb:
> Hi Johannes,
> 
> when talking to our designers at work, I learned that semantically, a 
> menu is nothing more than a list. So from the point of view of 
> describing only content in your xhtml file this seems to make a lot of 
> sense. Nesting lists inside each other is valid in this context I 
> believe. However, you are right about the font issue.
> 
> Still, I'm not a designer - just a webmonkey who sometimes hears cool 
> things at work ;-) I wonder how Bart (we NEED to differentiate our names 
> here! ;-) and Chris feel about this? Nothing wrong with a nice bit of 
> discussion!
> 
> Bart
> 
> Op 24-feb-05 om 21:22 heeft Johannes Langlotz het volgende geschreven:
> 
>> OK, now I will tattle a bit ;-) . I like standards very much. BUT to 
>> make this kind of menu (with pulldown menus) with lists makes it only 
>> complicated. And you are using several lists not only one like it 
>> should be. Besides you have to work with much fixed sizes and absolute 
>> positioning (e.g. for menu entries). And in course of that, it chops 
>> the menu if a user has a larger default font size. I don't want to run 
>> down your work (bart and bart)! In my opinion it should be as simple 
>> as possible in course of the variety of browsers and rendering engines.
>>
>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/mainmenu.js
>>
>> This is all JS I use for a text based menu. No need for if(IE) 
>> elseif(NN)... And that's why it works on every browser which I was 
>> able to test.
>>
>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/index.html
>>
>> I hate that every browser has its pros and cons (especially IE has 
>> cons ;-) ) but that's why it should be simple.
>>
>>
>> Johannes
>>
>>
>>
>> Bart Veldhuizen schrieb:
>>
>>> Hi Bart,
>>> I checked and it's not the javascript file, but there's something in 
>>> the header image that causes IE5/Mac to crash. Not sure what it is 
>>> yet... Anyway, when I remove the header graphic everything is ok.
>>> Some more observations: In IE5/Mac there's a lot of flashing; it 
>>> would seem that there are some conflicting color definitions. In 
>>> E5.5/Win2K there's a strange effect around the mousecursor: move the 
>>> mouse over the menu and into the dropdown. Move it around quickly and 
>>> you will see a 'square' around the cursor.
>>> Bart
>>> Op 24-feb-05 om 10:14 heeft Bart het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>>
>>>> no problem adding the font definitions. Tested my menu under Opera 
>>>> 7.5 on Windows and it works perfect on IE 5 too. Will test it on my 
>>>> mac later this day.
>>>>
>>>> Bart Veldhuizen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>>> it works like a charm in Firefox and Opera on Mac. It *completely* 
>>>>> crashes IE5 on my Mac though. I have tracked it down to the 
>>>>> javascript that sets the onMouseOver events; I'll look into that 
>>>>> tonight.
>>>>> Johannes has also started fiddling with the menu; he kind of missed 
>>>>> the point of building an xhtml/css menu though. One thing that I do 
>>>>> like about his version is the fonts: they are a bit more readable 
>>>>> and more like the current menu. Could you copy the font definition 
>>>>> into your version?
>>>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Bart
>>>>> Op 24-feb-05 om 0:38 heeft Bart het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Bart,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> here is a clean version of the menu working fine in FireFox and IE 
>>>>>> 6. Not tested with IE 5 on Win and Mac. There is a problem now 
>>>>>> with Opera 7.20 it doesn't show the dropdown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problems where like ever located in the different 
>>>>>> interpretation of the CSS box model, that IE does only accept 
>>>>>> hover styles with a tag and the different interpretation of css 
>>>>>> command text-align.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can test it on safari i can give it a try on IE 5 on mac 
>>>>>> and win. Of course i will find the opera bug. For that i can test 
>>>>>> it on Opera 7.5 too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Put it here too:
>>>>>> http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm on it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> |\/\/\/|
>>>>>> |      |
>>>>>> | (O)(O)        Bart.
>>>>>> C      _)       bart at neeneenee.de
>>>>>> |   ,_/
>>>>>> |   /    - Ich bin nicht berechtigt Aushilfslehrer zu feuern -
>>>>>> /   \
>>>>>>                 http://www.neeneenee.de
>>>>>> <org.zip>
>>>
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