[Bf-webcontent] Re: Menu nearly done

Bart bart at neeneenee.de
Fri Feb 25 00:29:23 CET 2005 

Hello johannes,

you are right the user does not see how it work. Web is changing and 
solutions based on CSS are rising. Solutions should work any way what 
they based on.

When i looking through your code and my code i can't said your is 
simpler or my is better, it seems more then i did this way and you 
choosed another.

Johannes Langlotz schrieb:
> Hi Bart (NL),
> 
> I have no problem with the list. I just see how many problems it brings 
> with it. I started to create websites when I was 17 and I learnd one 
> thing fast: SIMPLE! The visitor does not see how it is made! It just 
> should work.
> 
>  > Nesting lists inside each other is valid in this context I believe.
> 
> Yes it is. But shouldn't the b3d list look like this:
> 
> <ul>
>   <li>About Blender
>     <ul>
>       <li>Features</li>
>       <li>Gallery</li>
>       <li>Testimonials</li>
>       <li>Applications</li>
>       <li>Requirements</li>
>     </ul>
>   </li>
>   <li>Downloads
>     <ul>
>       <li>Blender</li>
>       <li>....</li>
>     </ul>
>   </li>
>   <li>InfoCenter
>     <ul>
>       <li>...</li>
>     </ul>
>   </li>
>   <li>...</li>
> </ul>
> 
> What I mean with "one list" is: ONE mainlist with several sublists! This 
> list should represent the whole menu tree. Now there is one list for 
> "About Blender" one for "Downloads" one for "InfoCenter"...
> 
> I want to emphasize again: I am not against the list! I am against the 
> complexity of javascript and css and the resulting browser problems!
> 
> 
> Johannes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bart Veldhuizen schrieb:
> 
>> Hi Johannes,
>>
>> when talking to our designers at work, I learned that semantically, a 
>> menu is nothing more than a list. So from the point of view of 
>> describing only content in your xhtml file this seems to make a lot of 
>> sense. Nesting lists inside each other is valid in this context I 
>> believe. However, you are right about the font issue.
>>
>> Still, I'm not a designer - just a webmonkey who sometimes hears cool 
>> things at work ;-) I wonder how Bart (we NEED to differentiate our 
>> names here! ;-) and Chris feel about this? Nothing wrong with a nice 
>> bit of discussion!
>>
>> Bart
>>
>> Op 24-feb-05 om 21:22 heeft Johannes Langlotz het volgende geschreven:
>>
>>> OK, now I will tattle a bit ;-) . I like standards very much. BUT to 
>>> make this kind of menu (with pulldown menus) with lists makes it only 
>>> complicated. And you are using several lists not only one like it 
>>> should be. Besides you have to work with much fixed sizes and 
>>> absolute positioning (e.g. for menu entries). And in course of that, 
>>> it chops the menu if a user has a larger default font size. I don't 
>>> want to run down your work (bart and bart)! In my opinion it should 
>>> be as simple as possible in course of the variety of browsers and 
>>> rendering engines.
>>>
>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/mainmenu.js
>>>
>>> This is all JS I use for a text based menu. No need for if(IE) 
>>> elseif(NN)... And that's why it works on every browser which I was 
>>> able to test.
>>>
>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/index.html
>>>
>>> I hate that every browser has its pros and cons (especially IE has 
>>> cons ;-) ) but that's why it should be simple.
>>>
>>>
>>> Johannes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bart Veldhuizen schrieb:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>> I checked and it's not the javascript file, but there's something in 
>>>> the header image that causes IE5/Mac to crash. Not sure what it is 
>>>> yet... Anyway, when I remove the header graphic everything is ok.
>>>> Some more observations: In IE5/Mac there's a lot of flashing; it 
>>>> would seem that there are some conflicting color definitions. In 
>>>> E5.5/Win2K there's a strange effect around the mousecursor: move the 
>>>> mouse over the menu and into the dropdown. Move it around quickly 
>>>> and you will see a 'square' around the cursor.
>>>> Bart
>>>> Op 24-feb-05 om 10:14 heeft Bart het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>>>
>>>>> no problem adding the font definitions. Tested my menu under Opera 
>>>>> 7.5 on Windows and it works perfect on IE 5 too. Will test it on my 
>>>>> mac later this day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bart Veldhuizen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>>>> it works like a charm in Firefox and Opera on Mac. It *completely* 
>>>>>> crashes IE5 on my Mac though. I have tracked it down to the 
>>>>>> javascript that sets the onMouseOver events; I'll look into that 
>>>>>> tonight.
>>>>>> Johannes has also started fiddling with the menu; he kind of 
>>>>>> missed the point of building an xhtml/css menu though. One thing 
>>>>>> that I do like about his version is the fonts: they are a bit more 
>>>>>> readable and more like the current menu. Could you copy the font 
>>>>>> definition into your version?
>>>>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Bart
>>>>>> Op 24-feb-05 om 0:38 heeft Bart het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Bart,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> here is a clean version of the menu working fine in FireFox and 
>>>>>>> IE 6. Not tested with IE 5 on Win and Mac. There is a problem now 
>>>>>>> with Opera 7.20 it doesn't show the dropdown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problems where like ever located in the different 
>>>>>>> interpretation of the CSS box model, that IE does only accept 
>>>>>>> hover styles with a tag and the different interpretation of css 
>>>>>>> command text-align.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can test it on safari i can give it a try on IE 5 on mac 
>>>>>>> and win. Of course i will find the opera bug. For that i can test 
>>>>>>> it on Opera 7.5 too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Put it here too:
>>>>>>> http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm on it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> |\/\/\/|
>>>>>>> |      |
>>>>>>> | (O)(O)        Bart.
>>>>>>> C      _)       bart at neeneenee.de
>>>>>>> |   ,_/
>>>>>>> |   /    - Ich bin nicht berechtigt Aushilfslehrer zu feuern -
>>>>>>> /   \
>>>>>>>                 http://www.neeneenee.de
>>>>>>> <org.zip>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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-- 
|\/\/\/|
|      |
| (O)(O)        Bart.
C      _)       bart at neeneenee.de
|   ,_/
|   /    - Ich bin nicht berechtigt Aushilfslehrer zu feuern -
/   \
                 http://www.neeneenee.de

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