[Bf-compositor] Extending some node functions to VSE

Fri May 23 15:19:41 CEST 2014

Jeroen,
I think that the original question is not just about blur.... it's about
the ability to build some nice effects over a strip.
Today it's all about blur... tomorrow focus will go on.. let say keying,
the day after on any other stuff that someone else would need for a
specific purpose..
Of course to add a blur modifier in the VSE will, in some way, help but to
me is like a  patch in an always growing hole...

As Sean pointed out, there are other priorities that have to be addressed
and in my opinion there's nothing more important than canvas and caching
because the first one will allow us to effectively use properly picture of
any size and the second one will finally allow us to see what we are doing
through a series of frames without render out sequence over sequence while
getting sad just because we would only see slight modification on a single
node...

Jeroen, I know talking about this topic is useless at the moment but I
believe users will not get confused if proper design will be made for such
a huge change that definitelly is a new way of thinking the relationship
between 3D, compositor and VSE.

Consider that every time I have to work with element that can change their
position along time due to creative choices and the result of that element
reflects on the background I'm forced to leave blender compositor and use
another solution simply because if I have to change something there is
literally a pain.

Someone can argue saying that I could render out strips and modify them on
another edit... well of course I could... but I'm not interested in having
dozen of blend file for something that can be just a little step more
complex than a simple edit... at least it's not an option if time
constraints are very critical.

Back to Sean proposal I tremendously agree with the ideas of an "edit node"
that looks really like the Combustion "edit node" where there's only a
layer allowed but with the useful difference that it can have multiple
strip as input and there are some operation allowed like trim, cut, revert,
retime freeze a frame.
Here a quick reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLWaNwiVoHU#t=57

However this tool that would really rock, solves just a part of the problem
we are arising here with this discussion simply because it doen't put each
input in relationship with the others that is essential especially for
motion graphic jobs.

Thanks for your time reading my mail
Ciao
Francesco

2014-05-23 7:09 GMT+02:00 Sean Kennedy <mack_dadd2 at hotmail.com>:

> Hey guys,
>
> Interesting conversation. While I agree it'd be cool to have simple fx in
> the VSE, like blur, I also hate to think that developers would be taken off
> other things to do something that can already be done in another part of
> blender. Layer-based timelines are definitely important. Animating things
> over time and offsetting individual clips is so easy to do in After Effects
> that it barely requires thinking. But then, AE doesn't play extremely well
> with Premiere (no matter what hype Adobe puts out saying it does), giving
> it the same issues we're ultimately discussing here. Making the compositor
> and VSE work together in the most efficient way.
>
> I have no clue what that is. I've used most compositing software out
> there, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. Offsetting clips in
> time is trickier in Nuke, so they actually just wrote a layer-based
> timeline for it. I haven't used it yet so I don't know how it works
> together with nodes, but it's interesting.
>
> http://cdn2.digitalartsonline.co.uk/cmsdata/slideshow/3492614/DopeSheet_02_271113-1500.jpg
>
> I used to think it'd be a great idea to have a a "timeline node". A node
> that, with footage plugged into it, would show you a timeline of the in and
> out settings of the project, and you could easily position your footage
> visually, and it would perform the time offsets you set.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u5nfbms8asltbsn/timeline_node.jpg
>
> I've also thought it would be cool to have a timeline based fx program
> where you could double click on a layer and it would go into a node view
> for all fx work. Sort of like a nested compositor inside of a editing
> program.
>
> I wish I knew more about Inferno and Flame, because I believe that is
> their strength - editing and vfx working together.
>
> Just thinking out loud here. I personally think there are much bigger
> issues that should be worked on, like caching, canvas compositing, etc. I'm
> sure there are much bigger things to be worked on in the VSE as well,
> things that are much more of a solid foundation. I don't know anything
> about code at all, or how all these modules talk to each other in Blender,
> but I'm sure it's not easy.
>
> sean
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 14:18:05 +1000
> From: 3pointedit at gmail.com
> To: bf-compositor at blender.org
> Subject: Re: [Bf-compositor] Extending some node functions to VSE
>
>
> Hi Jeroen,
>
> I agree that the compositor is a powerful tool for individual shots.
> However the artist should be able to make timing decisions (lining shots
> up relative to other shots in a composite) in the VSE, then send those
> times to the compositor. Whether they are animated 3D scene elements or
> live action video source should not matter.
> Currently we can do that from python scripting, but we cannot easily
> modify the timings if there is a creative change. Currently what is the
> Blender preferred 'workflow' for setting up frame offsets and media
> durations in the compositor? Answer - a notepad.
> But I am not sure how best to stop this becoming a feedback issue?
>
> Finally I agree that the VSE at least lacks a simple blur and this would
> be most helpful as a strip modifier instead of a Effect Strip. This way you
> could more easily mask elements of the shot that needs blurring.
>
> D
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 5:32 AM, Jeroen Bakker <j.bakker at atmind.nl> wrote:
>
>  Hi All,
>
> This topic has been discussed many times over, but on a pipeline point of
> view it is not that easy. Compositor works on shots, not on sequences. You
> first composite, then you sequence you don't want to mingle these tasks as
> it will only create confusion to users and developers. But you might want
> to think about a different system that could be used inside the sequencer.
> This system could share blurs and other features, But are we convinced how
> such a node based system will work with what cases, and what cases it
> really doesn't work?
>
> IMO someone should invest to get a blur strip going? It fits good in the
> architecture of Blender's sequencer, fairly easy to develop and solves the
> original question.
>
> Regards,
> Jeroen Bakker
>
>
> On 05/22/2014 04:07 PM, Francesco Paglia wrote:
>
> Hi Cezary,
> Well the workarond you proposed can be used but in my opinion it became
> useless as soon as you want to replicate this action for many clips in the
> same edit... you'll end up getting crazy trying to remember which scene
> contain the data you're looking for.
>
>
>
>
> 2014-05-22 15:49 GMT+02:00 Cezary Kopias <cezary.kopias at gmail.com>:
>
> This maybe something you know but its possible to use comp nodes on
> footage and use it in vse.
> Make scene with only movie clip node than blur or watever. You can also
> set clip range in vse of this scene. Than just import this scene in another
> (called "VSE" ?) and disable openGL preview to compute nodes. I think the
> main reson for the lack of nodes as modifirers is their non realtime speed.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 22 May 2014 15:08:15 +1000
> David McSween <3pointedit at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is slightly off topic, but I wonder if it is possible to extend the
> > function of VSE strip modifiers to use compositor nodes?
> >
> > That is allow re-using simple 'node code' like blur, to alter strip
> frames
> > in the VSE.
> >
> > We already have Curves and Color Corrector as well as Masks.
> >
> > I propose simply adding 'discreet task' modifiers but also wonder if you
> > can realistically port a compositor node tree into a VSE strip as a frame
> > modifier?
> >
> > One of the most annoying deficiencies in the VSE currently is the lack of
> > Blur filters.
> >
> > Thanks for your consideration.
> > David McSween
>
>
>  --
> ck <cezary.kopias at gmail.com>
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>
>
>  --
> Francesco Paglia
> Vfx and Production Supervisor
>
>  mobile  +39 347.82.12.473
>  e-mail   f.paglia.80 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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-- 
Francesco Paglia
Vfx and Production Supervisor

mobile  +39 347.82.12.473
e-mail   f.paglia.80 at gmail.com
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