[Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom

patrick boelens p_boelens at msn.com
Sat Mar 22 01:51:11 CET 2014


I have to admit I hadn't considered or encountered some of the situations described yet (such as toggling between global and local axis after typing in a number). Seems this is indeed quite the tricky issue to get right.

-Patrick

> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 20:17:13 -0400
> From: jason at handturkeystudios.com
> To: bf-committers at blender.org
> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom
> 
> For reference, this is a thread on BA where quite a bit of the blow up
> occurred:
> 
>   http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?325379-2-70-Modal-Numinput-Rant
> 
> There are about 5 pages there, but the short version is this: the 'old way'
> was/is so frequently used that using a modifier key to invert became a pretty
> huge hindrance for them. It's a bit more than "just" muscle memory. The
> argument is that 'simple' mode is more frequently what people want to do, so it
> should be the easiest to access.
> 
> I'm not going to weigh in one way or the other... other than to say that when
> advanced mode was the only mode, I did often find myself adding a quick "*-1"
> at the end of things when I needed to invert. Somehow that felt faster than
> Ctrl+-.
> 
>   -Jason
> 
> patrick boelens <p_boelens at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> > Whoops, at some point I forgot to check and accidentally sent this to Bastien
> > only. Below is our conversation so far.
> > 
> > Cheers!
> > Patrick
> > 
> > From: p_boelens at msn.com
> > To: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> > Subject: RE: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad
> > scroll-to-zoom Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 20:48:37 +0100
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Wow, really? With advanced mode it would still be possible to just start
> > typing -3.14, so the only "regression" would be the muscle memory adaption of
> > - to ctrl+- right? I haven't seen this discussion, but perhaps part of the
> > frustration was because the invert key was now hidden? If that is the case, a
> > tooltip might help with that I think? Anyone who was against this change care
> > to weigh in?
> > 
> > -Patrick
> > 
> > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 19:16:29 +0100
> > From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> > To: p_boelens at msn.com
> > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad
> > scroll-to-zoom
> > 
> > 
> >   
> >     
> >   
> >   
> >     Meh… Originally, there was only the advanced mode (old simple one
> >     being completely removed), but there was such a roaring I had to add
> >     back simple-mode-like feature, so that people could keep using XYZ/-
> >     etc. keys without ctrl by default... :/
> > 
> >     
> > 
> >     So, eeeh… would be wary making advanced mode default again!
> > 
> >     
> > 
> >     On 21/03/2014 18:22, patrick boelens
> >       wrote:
> > 
> >     
> >     
> >       
> >       Alright, I'll write up a ticket for that after
> >         dinner.
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         As for the message, right now this feature is completely hidden.
> >         Just thinking out loud here, but what if we did something like
> >         the following:
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         - Start all numinputs in advanced mode (if applicable)
> > 
> >         - '-' and '/' simply add the oprators (characters)
> > 
> >         - Shift+- and Shift+/ invert of set the whole input to 1/N
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         We could then have a simple (short) message like:
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         "D: [2+5|] = 7 (7.0000) along global Y | Shift+Minus: Invert
> >         input, Shift+Slash: Divide(?) input"
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         It wouldn't list all the features, but at least it would give an
> >         easy, comprehensive overview of the basic features for number
> >         input.
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         Any thoughts?
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         -Patrick
> > 
> >         
> > 
> >         
> >           Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 18:12:27 +0100
> > 
> >           From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> > 
> >           To: p_boelens at msn.com
> > 
> >           Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch
> >           trackpad scroll-to-zoom
> > 
> >           
> > 
> >           Eeeeh… cannot confirm that issue (for me, once backspace has
> >           erased whole text, next press quit numinput, so you can drag
> >           again object with the mouse). So yes, maybe a new ticket, with
> >           exact steps and small .blend file to reproduce the issue would
> >           be cool! :)
> > 
> >           
> > 
> >           As for help… well, thing is, it would made the message way too
> >           long. I could change e.g. [] for simple mode, {} for advanced
> >           one, small things like that, but going further will need some
> >           more general UI changes (as you said, messages like walk/fly
> >           mode or complex editmode tools are insane, not to mention they
> >           usually do not reflect changes in custom keymaps, etc.)!
> > 
> >           
> > 
> >           Cheers,
> > 
> >           Bastien
> > 
> >           
> > 
> >           On 21/03/2014 18:04, patrick
> >             boelens wrote:
> > 
> >           
> >           
> >             
> >             I just made a fresh build and it works like a
> >               charm! Thanks Bastien!! =D
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               The only remaining bug I found is that pressing backspace
> >               in advanced mode when there are no characters left it
> >               keeps adding a constant number (0.5828).
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               I.e.: (| = cursor. Backspace pressed after each line.)
> > 
> >               2+2|
> > 
> >               2+|
> > 
> >               2|
> > 
> >               |
> > 
> >               0.5828
> > 
> >               1.1656
> > 
> >               ...
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               Would you like me to make a ticket based on this?
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               On a different (usability) note, I believe the UI should
> >               probably mention both the mode it's currently in, as well
> >               available keys (similar to things like the Knife tool
> >               e.g.). I.e.:
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               "D: [2+5|] = 7 (7.0000) along global Y | Advanced Input |
> >               Equals Key: Toggle input mode, Left/Right Arrow Keys: Move
> >               input cursor, ...".
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               This would probably be part of the UI changes and illicit
> >               some debate though, so I'm guessing this one's probably
> >               worthy of a ticket either way. ;)
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               On a sidenote, I hope I didn't sound too negative here;
> >               I'm truly happy with this functionality! =)
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               Thanks!
> > 
> >               Patrick
> > 
> >               
> > 
> >               > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:59:15 +0100
> > 
> >                 > From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> > 
> >                 > To: bf-committers at blender.org
> > 
> >                 > CC: p_boelens at msn.com
> > 
> >                 > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and
> >                 Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom
> > 
> >                 > 
> > 
> >                 > I did fix three different issues today (commit
> >                 7148c97796723)… ;)
> > 
> >                 > 
> > 
> >                 > On 21/03/2014 16:47, patrick boelens wrote:
> > 
> >                 > > Hey Bastien,
> > 
> >                 > >
> > 
> >                 > > Thanks for the heads-up; I totally missed that
> >                 one! There are some bugs/ problems with it it seems (?),
> >                 but that could very well just be my build. I'll try
> >                 updating and submit a ticket if the problems persist.
> > 
> >                 > >
> > 
> >                 > > Cheers,
> > 
> >                 > > Patrick
> > 
> >                 > >
> > 
> >                 > >> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:08:43 +0100
> > 
> >                 > >> From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> > 
> >                 > >> To: bf-committers at blender.org
> > 
> >                 > >> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input
> >                 and Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom
> > 
> >                 > >>
> > 
> >                 > >> Hi Patrick,
> > 
> >                 > >>
> > 
> >                 > >> Regarding point 1), you might want to have
> >                 a look at 2.70 release notes…
> > 
> >                 > >>
> >                 http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Release_Notes/2.70/UI#Transform_Tools_Number_Input
> > 
> >                 > >>
> > 
> >                 > >> Cheers,
> > 
> >                 > >> Bastien
> > 
> >                 > >>
> > 
> >                 > >> On 21/03/2014 02:57, patrick boelens
> >                 wrote:
> > 
> >                 > >>> Hi everyone!
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> A long, long time ago I've made two
> >                 changes to Blender that made my life easier.
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> 1) Math in number input. This allowed
> >                 me to input things like Z 360/32*7
> > 
> >                 > >>> to rotate an object on the Z-axis by
> >                 78.75 degrees; or 7 segments of a
> > 
> >                 > >>> default UV Sphere for instance. This
> >                 was also extremely useful for
> > 
> >                 > >>> quickly manually placing duplicates in
> >                 (part of) a circle. Just set the
> > 
> >                 > >>> pivot point to the 3D cursor and type
> >                 ctrl+D R Z 360/7 6 times to get it done!
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> 2) Multi-touch scroll-to-zoom.
> >                 Currently multi-touch enabled devices automatically
> > 
> >                 > >>> default to two-finger-scroll for
> >                 rotating and pinch for zooming. This patch added a
> >                 toggle that set
> > 
> >                 > >>> two-finger-scroll to zoom.
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> The code for both these areas has
> > 
> >                 > >>> changed significantly, so I've just
> >                 stayed on 2.67 until now. However, I
> > 
> >                 > >>> am beginning to miss being able to
> >                 play with new all the new features,
> > 
> >                 > >>> so I'd kind of like to upgrade now. ;)
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> Before I spend a lot of
> > 
> >                 > >>> time implementing a new haphazard hack
> >                 however, I was wondering if
> > 
> >                 > >>> perhaps a core dev would be willing to
> >                 take a look at this.
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> Number one is really more of a
> >                 wishlist item to me, though it is probably a very useful
> >                 tool to have, and would also fit well with the current
> >                 system now that we can already type 4-1.3 for instance.
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> Scroll-to-zoom, however, is an
> >                 absolute deal-breaker for me. As I have a physical
> >                 handicap that affects the stance of my hands, pinching
> >                 is a very slow and difficult operation for me to
> >                 perform.
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> I've tried setting View3D's zoom to
> >                 Mouse/Trackpad Rotate in the preferences, but this
> >                 didn't work properly either. Perhaps these events could
> >                 be separated into more generic commands that don't
> >                 already imply/ affect a function? I.e.:
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> Trackpad Rotate -> Trackpad Scroll
> > 
> >                 > >>> Trackpad Zoom -> Trackpack Pinch
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> Alright, this mail's long enough as-is
> >                 methinks. Looking forward to a reply!
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>> Cheers,
> > 
> >                 > >>> Patrick
> > 
> >                 > >>> 
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> >                 _______________________________________________
> > 
> >                 > >>> Bf-committers mailing list
> > 
> >                 > >>> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > 
> >                 > >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > 
> >                 > >>>
> > 
> >                 > >>
> >                 _______________________________________________
> > 
> >                 > >> Bf-committers mailing list
> > 
> >                 > >> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > 
> >                 > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > 
> >                 > > 
> > 
> >                 > >
> >                 _______________________________________________
> > 
> >                 > > Bf-committers mailing list
> > 
> >                 > > Bf-committers at blender.org
> > 
> >                 > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > 
> >                 > >
> > 
> >                 > 
> > 
> >               
> >             
> >           
> >           
> > 
> >         
> >       
> >     
> >     
> >  		 	   		   		 	   		  
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