[Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom
Jason van Gumster
jason at handturkeystudios.com
Sat Mar 22 01:17:13 CET 2014
For reference, this is a thread on BA where quite a bit of the blow up
occurred:
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?325379-2-70-Modal-Numinput-Rant
There are about 5 pages there, but the short version is this: the 'old way'
was/is so frequently used that using a modifier key to invert became a pretty
huge hindrance for them. It's a bit more than "just" muscle memory. The
argument is that 'simple' mode is more frequently what people want to do, so it
should be the easiest to access.
I'm not going to weigh in one way or the other... other than to say that when
advanced mode was the only mode, I did often find myself adding a quick "*-1"
at the end of things when I needed to invert. Somehow that felt faster than
Ctrl+-.
-Jason
patrick boelens <p_boelens at msn.com> wrote:
> Whoops, at some point I forgot to check and accidentally sent this to Bastien
> only. Below is our conversation so far.
>
> Cheers!
> Patrick
>
> From: p_boelens at msn.com
> To: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> Subject: RE: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad
> scroll-to-zoom Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 20:48:37 +0100
>
>
>
>
> Wow, really? With advanced mode it would still be possible to just start
> typing -3.14, so the only "regression" would be the muscle memory adaption of
> - to ctrl+- right? I haven't seen this discussion, but perhaps part of the
> frustration was because the invert key was now hidden? If that is the case, a
> tooltip might help with that I think? Anyone who was against this change care
> to weigh in?
>
> -Patrick
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 19:16:29 +0100
> From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
> To: p_boelens at msn.com
> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch trackpad
> scroll-to-zoom
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Meh… Originally, there was only the advanced mode (old simple one
> being completely removed), but there was such a roaring I had to add
> back simple-mode-like feature, so that people could keep using XYZ/-
> etc. keys without ctrl by default... :/
>
>
>
> So, eeeh… would be wary making advanced mode default again!
>
>
>
> On 21/03/2014 18:22, patrick boelens
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Alright, I'll write up a ticket for that after
> dinner.
>
>
>
> As for the message, right now this feature is completely hidden.
> Just thinking out loud here, but what if we did something like
> the following:
>
>
>
> - Start all numinputs in advanced mode (if applicable)
>
> - '-' and '/' simply add the oprators (characters)
>
> - Shift+- and Shift+/ invert of set the whole input to 1/N
>
>
>
> We could then have a simple (short) message like:
>
>
>
> "D: [2+5|] = 7 (7.0000) along global Y | Shift+Minus: Invert
> input, Shift+Slash: Divide(?) input"
>
>
>
> It wouldn't list all the features, but at least it would give an
> easy, comprehensive overview of the basic features for number
> input.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
> -Patrick
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 18:12:27 +0100
>
> From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
>
> To: p_boelens at msn.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and Multi-touch
> trackpad scroll-to-zoom
>
>
>
> Eeeeh… cannot confirm that issue (for me, once backspace has
> erased whole text, next press quit numinput, so you can drag
> again object with the mouse). So yes, maybe a new ticket, with
> exact steps and small .blend file to reproduce the issue would
> be cool! :)
>
>
>
> As for help… well, thing is, it would made the message way too
> long. I could change e.g. [] for simple mode, {} for advanced
> one, small things like that, but going further will need some
> more general UI changes (as you said, messages like walk/fly
> mode or complex editmode tools are insane, not to mention they
> usually do not reflect changes in custom keymaps, etc.)!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bastien
>
>
>
> On 21/03/2014 18:04, patrick
> boelens wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I just made a fresh build and it works like a
> charm! Thanks Bastien!! =D
>
>
>
> The only remaining bug I found is that pressing backspace
> in advanced mode when there are no characters left it
> keeps adding a constant number (0.5828).
>
>
>
> I.e.: (| = cursor. Backspace pressed after each line.)
>
> 2+2|
>
> 2+|
>
> 2|
>
> |
>
> 0.5828
>
> 1.1656
>
> ...
>
>
>
> Would you like me to make a ticket based on this?
>
>
>
> On a different (usability) note, I believe the UI should
> probably mention both the mode it's currently in, as well
> available keys (similar to things like the Knife tool
> e.g.). I.e.:
>
>
>
> "D: [2+5|] = 7 (7.0000) along global Y | Advanced Input |
> Equals Key: Toggle input mode, Left/Right Arrow Keys: Move
> input cursor, ...".
>
>
>
> This would probably be part of the UI changes and illicit
> some debate though, so I'm guessing this one's probably
> worthy of a ticket either way. ;)
>
>
>
> On a sidenote, I hope I didn't sound too negative here;
> I'm truly happy with this functionality! =)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:59:15 +0100
>
> > From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
>
> > To: bf-committers at blender.org
>
> > CC: p_boelens at msn.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input and
> Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom
>
> >
>
> > I did fix three different issues today (commit
> 7148c97796723)… ;)
>
> >
>
> > On 21/03/2014 16:47, patrick boelens wrote:
>
> > > Hey Bastien,
>
> > >
>
> > > Thanks for the heads-up; I totally missed that
> one! There are some bugs/ problems with it it seems (?),
> but that could very well just be my build. I'll try
> updating and submit a ticket if the problems persist.
>
> > >
>
> > > Cheers,
>
> > > Patrick
>
> > >
>
> > >> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:08:43 +0100
>
> > >> From: montagne29 at wanadoo.fr
>
> > >> To: bf-committers at blender.org
>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Number input
> and Multi-touch trackpad scroll-to-zoom
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Hi Patrick,
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Regarding point 1), you might want to have
> a look at 2.70 release notes…
>
> > >>
> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Release_Notes/2.70/UI#Transform_Tools_Number_Input
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Cheers,
>
> > >> Bastien
>
> > >>
>
> > >> On 21/03/2014 02:57, patrick boelens
> wrote:
>
> > >>> Hi everyone!
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> A long, long time ago I've made two
> changes to Blender that made my life easier.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> 1) Math in number input. This allowed
> me to input things like Z 360/32*7
>
> > >>> to rotate an object on the Z-axis by
> 78.75 degrees; or 7 segments of a
>
> > >>> default UV Sphere for instance. This
> was also extremely useful for
>
> > >>> quickly manually placing duplicates in
> (part of) a circle. Just set the
>
> > >>> pivot point to the 3D cursor and type
> ctrl+D R Z 360/7 6 times to get it done!
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> 2) Multi-touch scroll-to-zoom.
> Currently multi-touch enabled devices automatically
>
> > >>> default to two-finger-scroll for
> rotating and pinch for zooming. This patch added a
> toggle that set
>
> > >>> two-finger-scroll to zoom.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> The code for both these areas has
>
> > >>> changed significantly, so I've just
> stayed on 2.67 until now. However, I
>
> > >>> am beginning to miss being able to
> play with new all the new features,
>
> > >>> so I'd kind of like to upgrade now. ;)
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Before I spend a lot of
>
> > >>> time implementing a new haphazard hack
> however, I was wondering if
>
> > >>> perhaps a core dev would be willing to
> take a look at this.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Number one is really more of a
> wishlist item to me, though it is probably a very useful
> tool to have, and would also fit well with the current
> system now that we can already type 4-1.3 for instance.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Scroll-to-zoom, however, is an
> absolute deal-breaker for me. As I have a physical
> handicap that affects the stance of my hands, pinching
> is a very slow and difficult operation for me to
> perform.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> I've tried setting View3D's zoom to
> Mouse/Trackpad Rotate in the preferences, but this
> didn't work properly either. Perhaps these events could
> be separated into more generic commands that don't
> already imply/ affect a function? I.e.:
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Trackpad Rotate -> Trackpad Scroll
>
> > >>> Trackpad Zoom -> Trackpack Pinch
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Alright, this mail's long enough as-is
> methinks. Looking forward to a reply!
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Cheers,
>
> > >>> Patrick
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> > >>> Bf-committers mailing list
>
> > >>> Bf-committers at blender.org
>
> > >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>
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>
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>
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> > >
>
> > >
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>
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