[Bf-taskforce25] Keyboard Shortcuts Proposal

Daniel H gg20k1 at gmail.com
Tue Jun 23 15:41:01 CEST 2009 

Ok, that was my guess. Then the problem becomes how well people who have
used Blender for years are going to adapt to something new.
I came from another software package (Animation Master) that used LMB for
selecting and manipulating. I spent months relearning how to work with the
mouse when I moved to Blender. I even switched the mouse button to the
opposite for familiarity's sake. Worst idea ever.

I think, while 2.5 is going to bring major changes to the way people use
Blender, some things should stay the same, so that the learning curve is
eased up.

Especially since the "power user" can switch the settings as they wish.

Ok, I shall now leave y'all to perfect the software. Ignore my ramblings and
interjections.

Daniel


On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Wahooney <wahooney at wahooney.net> wrote:

> Daniel,
>
> I think the main point of the discussion is to get the best default
> setup. Power users (power to the users indeed ;) ) can set it to
> something else if needed.
>
> Daniel H wrote:
> > I haven't been reading the whole thread, but this email caught my eye...
> >
> > Can't this all be setup per user settings as to which mouse button is
> > set to be select and which is modify? I mean, it's much like the
> > customizable key shortcuts. The user knows how best he needs to
> > function, let him pick the the setup. If he's shaky, he'll probably
> > want it to be LMB, so he can go into setting and select that.
> >
> > Power to the users, eh?
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Nathan Vegdahl <cessen at cessen.com
> > <mailto:cessen at cessen.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     > As for RMB select for tablet use, I couldn't agree less. RMB is
> >     > ridiculously clunky for tablets, you have to hover the pen above
> the
> >     > surface and try to aim, while pushing a side button that will
> >     actually
> >     > push your stylus out of the way of what you're pointing at.
> >
> >     It may depend on the tablet.  I use an intuos 3, and hitting RMB is
> >     convenient and moves the stylus at least as little (if not less) as
> >     tapping with the stylus tip.  Other tablets may have styluses with
> >     less convenient button placement.
> >
> >     But regardless, I don't think micro-movements of the cursor
> (resulting
> >     from either RMB or tapping) hurts selection in Blender.  If I had to
> >     be pixel-perfect to select something with Blender, I'd already be
> >     screwed.  Blender is extremely good at working with imprecise
> >     selections.
> >
> >     What I have noticed is that the only time a stylus is actually
> precise
> >     is when it's already touching the surface of the tablet, because you
> >     have resistance.  Therefore the only truly precise "clicking" you can
> >     do is lifting the stylus *off* of the tablet.  Tapping moves the tip.
> >     Lifting doesn't.  At least that's been my experience.
> >     So for tablet use it would be nice to map LMB-up to things where
> >     precision matters most.
> >
> >     --Nathan V
> >
> >     On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Matt Ebb<matt at mke3.net
> >     <mailto:matt at mke3.net>> wrote:
> >     > Haven't had time to go over this proposal yet, will have a
> >     better look
> >     > tomorrow, but here's my 2c on the mouse button issue.
> >     >
> >     > On 22/06/2009, at 10:15 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote:
> >     >
> >     >> I'm on Blender a lot, for
> >     >> long stretches of time. Excessive left-clicking can and does
> >     lead to
> >     >> tennis elbow. Furthermore, right-click select is actually idea for
> >     >> tablet use. Please keep these things in mind.
> >     >
> >     > On the other side of the coin (anecdotal evidence too :) all of
> >     us at
> >     > work use LMB select every day, and it's just fine. Nowadays most
> >     of us
> >     > are on tablets though, so not really clicking, but it used to be
> all
> >     > mice, and no tennis elbow. Not to mention that just about everybody
> >     > that uses any other 3D application will also use LMB select, I
> don't
> >     > hear many of them complaining and wanting to configure it to RMB ;)
> >     >
> >     > As for RMB select for tablet use, I couldn't agree less. RMB is
> >     > ridiculously clunky for tablets, you have to hover the pen above
> the
> >     > surface and try to aim, while pushing a side button that will
> >     actually
> >     > push your stylus out of the way of what you're pointing at. Not to
> >     > mention that painting/sculpting/etc only makes sense actually using
> >     > the pen as a pen. I can't possibly imagine using RMB select on a
> >     tablet!
> >     >
> >     >> Helping new users is an admirable goal (trust me, I spend a lot of
> >     >> time
> >     >> with new users) but my impressions of 2.5 is that it's purpose
> >     is to
> >     >> improve the experience of existing Blender users moreso than new
> >     >> users.
> >     >
> >     > There's another point in LMB select's favour though that's not just
> >     > for new users. For people who use a fair few different apps in a 3D
> >     > pipeline (other 3d apps, external modellers, comping apps, etc) it
> >     > gets frustrating having to mentally switch gears to different
> >     > selection modes every time you alt-tab. That's the main reason why
> I
> >     > created the LMB select option in the first place.
> >     >
> >     > Anyway, regardless of what is decided upon as the default, it would
> >     > also be a very good thing to have a startup screen when Blender is
> >     > first installed/launched that provides a few keyboard/mouse
> >     navigation/
> >     > selection presets to choose between, perhaps like:
> >     > * Blender 2.5
> >     > * Blender 2.4
> >     > * Max
> >     > * Maya
> >     > * etc.
> >     >
> >     > This will go a long way towards easing the transition for
> >     artists from
> >     > other packages.
> >     >
> >     > cheers,
> >     >
> >     > Matt
> >     >
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