[Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
mail at smokythaklown.com
mail at smokythaklown.com
Tue Sep 16 12:01:25 CEST 2014
Autodesk is officially a bunch of #@#%%$@ with no help, i even tried
to convince them that their one licensed users need blender =) for a
solod pipeline and in not helping us would result in their own financial
loss. No success , but i noticed how far fbx already has gotten without
their help so a round of applause to all blender developers that have
made it so far and all the great new updates in 2.71 in game
development. Really great stuff everyone especially that mouse look
actuator, very wonderful. I cannot wait to add my contribution and be
apart of the movement to a free world
On 14-09-2014, Ton Roosendaal
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I inspected the FBX license 3 years ago, conclusions
here;
> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Ton/Autodesk_FBX_EULA
[40]
>
> The main issue is that Autodesk just imposes limits on the sdk
use cause with open source. Like:
> - You have to register at Autodesk
for it.
> - You cannot share it.
> - You cannot use it commercially.
>
> If Autodesk would relicense their SDK in a way that:
> - any party
can distribute it freely
> - users can use it for any purpose legally
>
> We might have a starting point for considering that SDK seriously.
>
> -Ton-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
Ton Roosendaal - ton at blender.org [41] - www.blender.org [42]Chairman
Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> Entrepotdok 57A -
1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands
>
> On 13 Sep, 2014, at 21:12,
metalliandy wrote:
>
>> Why cant we just link users to the FBX SDK?
Isn't this what the FBX FAQ states people should do in cases of
Opensource?
>>
>>> 1.2 Can I redistribute the FBX SDK? You cannot
redistribute or repackage the FBX SDK without written permission from
Autodesk. If you create open-source code that uses the FBX SDK,
distribute your code and include a link to the Autodesk FBX website so
the user can install the FBX SDK. If your code needs a specific version
of the SDK you can distribute the complete .exe from the Autodesk FBX
website.
>>
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fbx-sdk/fbx-sdk-faq/td-p/4165297
[13]Cheers, -Andy On 13/09/2014 18:11, Ton Roosendaal wrote:
>>
>>>
Hi, There is no way we (as in official releases on blender.org) can be
using Autdesk's FBX library without violating the Autodesk license and
violating the GPL at the same time. The linking Octane/Vray trick won't
work either for us - simply because we cannot distribute Autodesk's
stuff. Autodesk themselves could do it probably, and most likely an
authorized plugin reseller would be able to do it too. But... you then
get into very shady areas of trying to trick things that shouldn't be
tricked to start with. (Note: The method as being in use by Octane and
Vray hasn't been verified or approved. At first sight it just looks to
be on the safe side though, but it would require a careful examination).
And most importantly: We're in the free software bizz first - that means
we aim for making a tool for artists that is free for them to apply, to
study, to learn from, to copy, to share and to improve. All very
important virtues, in which Autodesk is not interested in - Not At All.
Don't forget this! -Ton-
-------------------------------------------------------- Ton Roosendaal
- ton at blender.org [10] - www.blender.org [11] Chairman Blender
Foundation - Producer Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD
Amsterdam - The Netherlands On 10 Sep, 2014, at 16:36,
mail at smokythaklown.com [12]wrote:
>>>
>>>> yes sir! On 09-09-2014,
Jeffrey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What about something similar to how the
Octane team avoided the GPL limits? They used an external server program
that piped all the render data between Octane and Blender which avoided
mixing the code. On 09/09/2014 05:48 AM,
bf-gamedev-request at blender.orgwrote: [9]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Send Bf-gamedev
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Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Bf-gamedev
digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX
support (Bastien Montagne) 2. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX
support (mail at smokythaklown.com [5]) 3. Re: Proposal to (try to) get
better FBX support (Crs Mrn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:07:45 +0200 From: Bastien Montagne
Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
To: bf-gamedev at blender.org [7] Message-ID:
>
>>
>
>>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi, And thanks for the link, unfortunately
this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys at
http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ [15] . Aside from the fact that they add
another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real issue with
their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK! If we could use
FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But FBX SDK is
everything but opensource, which means we cannot use (distribute) it
with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47,
mail at smokythaklown.coma [16]?crit :
>>>
>>>>>>>
http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/Check
[14]with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might already
be aware of his efforts, just trying to help. On 08-09-2014, Bastien
Montagne wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all, So, as everyone probably
already knows, we are struggling like Hell to try to support FBX format
in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount of energy on this, for
rather mitigated results so far (to summarize, roughly static
object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic animation too.
Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature handling is
kind of nightmare). Now, what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon
(as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any
dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I
can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good code',
'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code', 'non-crashing
code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender release and build,
so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily test it, without
waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an issue is clearly
solved in bad experimental addon, we can think to
> a good and nice way
to implement it in good one. I would start to put Jens? work in this
experimental version, and see whether it enhances armature handling for
artists. In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX reports I
got in past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX test cases
I need to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d ask artists
having 'ref FBX applications' to generate such files. Please let me know
if you see something wrong in here, or something to add (and yes, I know
experimental addon is dirty). Cheers, Bastien
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http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev [45] kquote
type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;
margin-left:5px; width:100%">
>>
>>>
_______________________________________________ Bf-gamedev mailing list
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>>
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[19] ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014
12:14:27 +0000 From: mail at smokythaklown.com [20] Subject: Re:
[Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support To: Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My personal honest opinion..
about what your actually doing is devoting time for people to use
autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather then blender/BGE/makehuman. I
understand the goal, and maybe a year ago i would have even spent money
for you to develop in this area.. but in the long run imagine what could
have been done for blender itself with the massive amount of time spent
. My theory is we make snakes work, snakes dont make us work. -dont get
me wrong, alot of blender community is indeed g rateful to the fbx
efforts especially for jobs that clients request specific formats and
applications, but overall more harm is being done to blender itself.
Just my opinion, hope it alters reality in a positive way small or big.
Good luck! *dont kill yourself over fbx On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne
wrote: Hi, And thanks for the link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked
version of the work from guys at http://blenderfbx.render.jp/[6] [23].
Aside from the fact that they add another intermediate ste
> .bos
format), the real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which
uses? FBX SDK! If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times
simpler for us. But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we
cannot use (distribute) it with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014
11:47, mail at smokythaklown.com [46] [7] a ?crit :
http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/[3]
[47] Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might
already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help.
>>
>>>> On
>>
08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
>>
>>>>> Hi all, So, as
>>
everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to
blockquote> to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a
**huge** amount
>> 5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%"> of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to
summarize, handling is kind of nightmare). Now,
>> quote> what I propose
is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib), **clearly flagged as
experimental**, where we can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development.
The point is, I want a place where I
>>>
>>>> can do whatever I want,
without considering things like 'good
>>> code',
>> ype="cite"
style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%"> 'maintainable code', 'readable c
>>
>>>
="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%">
>>> code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender
release and build, waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an
issue is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think
>>
-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> to a good and
nice way to implement it in good one. to try to understand those issues
better. Then, I'd ask artists
>>
>>> th:100%">
>>>
>>>>> 'ref FBX
applications' to generate
>> iles. Please let me know if you see
something w
>>
>>> ding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;
margin-left:5px; width:100%"> a
>> I know experimental addon is dirty).
CABPSr7_TcABk3v9FF6qXMzxqJUbQXsOtA1UuQ4dPdkwqM82qew at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I think there might be ways to
use FBX SDK in a way tha -left:5px; width:100%"> could not interfere
with GPL. The license says that it cannot be bundled with Blender. I
guess that this could be solved by using a custom repository pl
>> n the
plugin inside Blender, and it displays you a list of things you could
download. On this list, there could be the FBX plugin made using FBX
SDK. In order to shield the SDK source from GPL, a intermediary piece of
code might be needed. Whe
>>
>>> k there could be ways to dodge GPL in
order to use the official FBX SDK. ?n data de 09.09.2014 15:14, a
scris:
>> e="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px
solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> .. about what your actually doing
is devoting time for people to use autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather
then blender/BGE/makehuman. I understand the goal, and maybe a year ago
i would have even spent money for you to develop in this area.. but in
the long run imagine what could have been do
>> r itself with the
massive amount of time spent . My theory is we make snakes work, snakes
dont make us work. -dont get me wrong, alot of blender community is
indeed grateful to the fbx efforts especially for jobs that clients
request specific formats and applications, but overall more harm is
being done t
>>
>>> ll yourself over fbx On 09-09-2
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
> Montagne wrote: Hi, And thanks for the link,
unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys at
http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ [48] . Aside from the fact that they add
another interme
>
> d
> i ate step (their own .bos format), the real
issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK! If we
could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But
FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use
(distribute) it with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47,
mail at smokythaklown.com [49] a ?crit :
http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/
[50] Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might
already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help. On 08-09-2014,
Bastien Montagne wrote: Hi all, So, as everyone probably already knows,
we are struggling like Hell to try to support FBX forma
>
>> ummarize,
roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic
animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature
handling is kind of n igh
>>
>>> tmare). Now, what I propose is to add
a second fbx io addon (as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**,
where we can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I
want a place where I can do whatever I want, without considering things
like 'good code', 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code',
'non-crashing code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender
release and build, so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily
test it, without waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an issue
is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think to a good and
nice way to implement it in good one. I would start to put Jens? work in
this experimental version, and see whether it enhances armature handling
for artists. In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX
reports I got in past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX
test cases I need to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d
ask artists having 're
>> f F BX applications' to generate such files.
Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or something to
add (and yes, I know experimental addon is dirty). Cheers, Bastien
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