[Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support

Sat Sep 13 19:51:44 CEST 2014

I suggest we just use the SDK to make a functional non blender
related plugin and simply just link it for people to use if needed. Done
deal 

On 13-09-2014, Ton Roosendaal wrote: 

> Hi,
> 
> There is no way
we (as in official releases on blender.org) can be using Autdesk's FBX
library without violating the Autodesk license and violating the GPL at
the same time. 
> 
> The linking Octane/Vray trick won't work either for
us - simply because we cannot distribute Autodesk's stuff. 
> Autodesk
themselves could do it probably, and most likely an authorized plugin
reseller would be able to do it too. But... you then get into very shady
areas of trying to trick things that shouldn't be tricked to start
with.
> 
> (Note: The method as being in use by Octane and Vray hasn't
been verified or approved. At first sight it just looks to be on the
safe side though, but it would require a careful examination).
> 
> And
most importantly:
> 
> We're in the free software bizz first - that
means we aim for making a tool for artists that is free for them to
apply, to study, to learn from, to copy, to share and to improve. All
very important virtues, in which Autodesk is not interested in - Not At
All. Don't forget this!
> 
> -Ton-
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------
> Ton
Roosendaal - ton at blender.org [24] - www.blender.org [25]
> Chairman
Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> Entrepotdok 57A -
1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands
> 
> On 10 Sep, 2014, at 16:36,
mail at smokythaklown.com [26]wrote:
> 
>> yes sir! On 09-09-2014, Jeffrey
wrote: 
>> 
>>> What about something similar to how the Octane team
avoided the GPL limits? They used an external server program that piped
all the render data between Octane and Blender which avoided mixing the
code. On 09/09/2014 05:48 AM, bf-gamedev-request at blender.orgwrote: [9]

>>> 
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Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Bf-gamedev
digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX
support (Bastien Montagne) 2. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX
support (mail at smokythaklown.com [5]) 3. Re: Proposal to (try to) get
better FBX support (Crs Mrn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:07:45 +0200 From: Bastien Montagne
Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
To: bf-gamedev at blender.org [7] Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi, And thanks for the link, unfortunately
this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys at
http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ [27] . Aside from the fact that they add
another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real issue with
their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK! If we could use
FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But FBX SDK is
everything but opensource, which means we cannot use (distribute) it
with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47,
mail at smokythaklown.coma [28]?crit :
> 
>>>>>
http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/Check
[10]with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might already
be aware of his efforts, just trying to help. On 08-09-2014, Bastien
Montagne wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all, So, as everyone probably already
knows, we are struggling like Hell to try to support FBX format in
Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount of energy on this, for
rather mitigated results so far (to summarize, roughly static
object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic animation too.
Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature handling is
kind of nightmare). Now, what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon
(as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any
dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I
can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good code',
'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code', 'non-crashing
code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender release and build,
so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily test it, without
waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an issue is clearly
solved in bad experimental addon, we can think to a
> 
> good and nice
way to implement it in good one. I would start to put Jens? work in this
experimental version, and see whether it enhances armature handling for
artists. In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX reports I
got in past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX test cases
I need to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d ask artists
having 'ref FBX applications' to generate such files. Please let me know
if you see something wrong in here, or something to add (and yes, I know
experimental addon is dirty). Cheers, Bastien
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>
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> 
>>
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20140909/e5dd400a/attachment-0001.htm
------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014
12:14:27 +0000 From: mail at smokythaklown.com [11] Subject: Re:
[Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support To: Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My personal honest opinion..
about what your actually doing is devoting time for people to use
autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather then blender/BGE/makehuman. I
understand the goal, and maybe a year ago i would have even spent money
for you to develop in this area.. but in the long run imagine what could
have been done for blender itself with the massive amount of time spent
. My theory is we make snakes work, snakes dont make us work. -dont get
me wrong, alot of blender community is indeed g 
>> 
>> rateful to the
fbx efforts especially for jobs that clients request specific formats
and applications, but overall more harm is being done to blender itself.
Just my opinion, hope it alters reality in a positive way small or big.
Good luck! *dont kill yourself over fbx On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne
wrote:
>> Hi, And thanks
> ckquote> link, unfortunately this is just a
tweaked version of the work from guys at http://blenderfbx.render.jp/[6]
[34]. Aside from the fact that they add another intermediate step (their
own .bos format), the real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv,
which uses? FBX SDK! If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds
times simpler for us. But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which
means we cannot use (distribute) it with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le
09/09/2014 11:47, mail at smokythaklown.com [35] [7] a ?crit :
http://darisl.wo
> 
>> " style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff
2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> 
>> 
>>> Check with this cat
working on the fbx armature import. You
>> might already be aware of his
efforts, just trying to help. 
>> 
>>>> On
>> 08-09-2014, Bastien
Montagne wrote: 
>>> 
>>>> Hi all, So, as
>>> everyone probably already
knows, we are struggling like Hell to
>> left:5px; border-left:#1010ff
2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> tr
>> 
>>> mount
>> left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">of energy on
this, for rather mitigated results so far (to summarize, animation too.
Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature 
>>> 
>>>>
handling is kind of nightmare). Now,
>>> what I propose is to add a
second fbx io addon (as contr
>> y flagged as experimental**, where we
can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a
place where I can do whatever I want, without considering things like
'good code',
>> ="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px
solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> 'maintainable code', 'readable
code', 'stable 
>> 
>>> :5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;
margin-left:5px; width:100%">
>> and yet get it in all and every Blender
release and build, so that anyone
>> 
>>> e type="cite"
style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%">
>> ing time in mails pingpong and such. olved in bad
experimental addon, we can think
>> ckquote type="cite"
style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%">to a good and nice way to implement it in good one. > I
would start to put Jens' work in this experimental
>>> version, and
see
>> px; width:100%"> whether it enhances armature handling for
artists. 
>>> 
>>>> In the mean time, I'll try to go over all unfixed
FBX
>>> reports I got in
>> e" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> past
months, and establish a list of basic, si
>> 
>>> g-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
>> to
understand those issues better. Then, I'd ask artists having
style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%">'ref FBX applications' to generate such files.
>>
le="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%"> Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or
something to tyle="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;
margin-left:5px; width:100%"> 
>>> 
>>>> add (and yes, I know
experimental addon is
>>> dirty).
>> te" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> Bf-gamedev
mailing list e="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px
solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Bf-gamedev at blender.org [14] [1]
>>
______________">http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev[2]_______________________________________________
Bf-gamedev mailing ; width:100%"> 
>>> 
>>>> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
[15] [4]
>>> http://lists.blen
>> an/listinfo/bf-gamedev [5] Links:
------ [1] mailto:Bf-gamedev at blender.org [20] [2]
http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev [21] [3]
http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ [22] [7] mailto:mail at smokythaklown.com [23]
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>> 
>>> Tue, 9
Sep 2014 15:48:41 +0300 From: Crs Mrn Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal
to (try to) get better FBX support To: bf-gamedev at blender.org [19]
Message-ID:
>>
XMzxqJUbQXsOtA1UuQ4dPdkwqM82qew at mail.gmail.com">CABPSr7_TcABk3v9FF6qXMzxqJUbQXsOtA1UuQ4dPdkwqM82qew at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I think there might be ways
to use FBX SDK in a way that 
>> 
>>> is could be solved by using a
custom repository plugin. You open the plugin inside Blender, and it
displays you a list of things you could download. On this list, there
could be the FBX plugin made using FBX SDK. In order to shield the SDK
source from GPL, a intermediary piece of code
>> ed. When you firstly
start Blender, that download plugin downloads the FBX plugin
automaticly, for all users. I think there could be ways to dodge GPL in
order to use the official FBX SDK. ?n data de 09.09.2014 15:14, 
>>
ing-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%">My personal honest opinion.. about what your actually
doin
>> 
>>> rstand the goal, and maybe a year ago i would have even
spent money for you to develop in this area.. but in the lo
>> 
>>> 
>>

>>> 
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
> e what could have been done for
blender itself with the massive amount of time spent . My theory is we
make snakes work, snakes dont make us work. -dont get me wrong, alot of
blender community is indeed grateful to the fbx efforts especially for
jobs that clients request specific formats and applications, but overall
more harm is being done to blender itself. Just my opinion, hope it
alters reality in a positive way small or big. Good luck! *dont kill
yourself over fbx On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote: Hi, And thanks
for the link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of the work
from guys at http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ [36] . Aside from the fact
that they add another intermedi 
> 
> ate step (their own .bos format),
the real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX
SDK! If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for
us. But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use
(distribute) it with Blender. Cheers, Bastien Le 09/09/2014 11:47,
mail at smokythaklown.com [37] a ?crit :
http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/
[38] Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might
already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help. On 08-09-2014, >
support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount of
energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to summarize,
roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic
animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature
handling is kind of nigh tmare). Now, what I propose is to add a second
fbx io addon (as contrib), **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we
can put any dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a
place where I can do whatever I want, without considering things like
'good code', 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code',
'non-crashing code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender
release and build, so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily
test it, without waisting time in mails pingpong and such. Once an issue
is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think to a good and
nice way to implement it in good one. I would start to put Jens? work in
this experimental version, and see whether it enhances armature handling
for artists. In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX
reports I got in past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX
test cases I need to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d
ask artists having 'ref F BX applications' to generate such files.
Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or something to
add
> know experimental addon is dirty). Cheers, Bastien
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