[Bf-gamedev] UI; Improvements and Customization

Fri Oct 11 14:01:37 CEST 2013

> Have you looked into a portable install? You could put a portable copy 
> (meaning it keeps the settings inside the program folder, rather than 
> the user documents one) on dropbox and share the directory with your 
> employees. This would, as far as I know, keep all settings. Interface, 
> plugins, hotkeys, scripts...
>
> I don't know if it's possible to easily make Blender portable 
> yourself, though there's a version up on portableapps.com 
> <http://portableapps.com>. personally I'd like an option inside of 
> Blender that can set the user directory. I've done this with NVIL, and 
> keep my entire folder on dropbox. This way any changes I make at work 
> get propagated to my home install automatically, without me having to 
> set up symlinks on every computer.

When you are on the Download page at blender.org, there is an option to 
download an installer or a zip. The zip contains a portable version, 
with all the settings inside. I put it on Google Drive, works without 
problems.

I'm not sure about Mac's.

> Michael Knubben <mailto:michaelknubben at gmail.com>
> 11 października 2013 12:50
> Colin:
>
> These are all great points. While I advocate really getting to know a 
> program intimately before you suggest changes (something I've been 
> doing), your usecase is interesting, and certainly a worthy idea.
> Have you looked into a portable install? You could put a portable copy 
> (meaning it keeps the settings inside the program folder, rather than 
> the user documents one) on dropbox and share the directory with your 
> employees. This would, as far as I know, keep all settings. Interface, 
> plugins, hotkeys, scripts...
>
> I don't know if it's possible to easily make Blender portable 
> yourself, though there's a version up on portableapps.com 
> <http://portableapps.com>. personally I'd like an option inside of 
> Blender that can set the user directory. I've done this with NVIL, and 
> keep my entire folder on dropbox. This way any changes I make at work 
> get propagated to my home install automatically, without me having to 
> set up symlinks on every computer.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/michaelknubben/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-gamedev mailing list
> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> Colin Knueppel <mailto:colin.k.work at gmail.com>
> 11 października 2013 04:23
> Thank you Jason and Brecht. It's encouraging that it seems some of 
> what I was hoping for can be done as the program stands.
>
> To Brecht, I've been slogging through this very long audio dialogue 
> about the Blender UI.
> https://soundcloud.com/andrew-price/episode-11-jonathan-williamson
> Part way through, Williamson describes a drawing program that cloned 
> much of photoshops core functions and hotkeys, and used it to gain 
> many early adopters. They also discuss how many users used the maya 
> presets to first get introduced to Blender.
>
> From my perspective, as an animation lead, I have to consider who I 
> can hire. I might find some talented Blender users, but the vast 
> majority of people that apply at Unknown Worlds are these days Maya 
> users, and still a good few that are Max. For new hires and contract 
> workers we bring in, we need them to be able to jump right into 
> production. We do not have much loose cash to train people up. So, in 
> our studio, if we adopted Blender, it would be very beneficial if we 
> could implement keys and layouts that laid out tools and conventions 
> similar to the other major packages.
>
> To a great extent what you describe, key shortcuts, adding panels, 
> tool shelves, and making these easy to share, are really what I need. 
> If I can put the tools and the familiar hotkeys for a new hire all 
> front and center, the new hire can get to work with minimal knowledge. 
> They'll have issues, but it won't be showstoppers.
> Now, if the new function allowed us to also load into our panels 
> custom scripts, we could get clever and also load pertinent trait 
> sliders and make some common buttons to aid artists. It might not be 
> fancy at first, but it could lead to some streamlined blender 
> environment designs within a studio over time.
>
> Finally, to reiterate a point,
> It would be important that these environments be easy to load and 
> save. With developers, you're rarely talking about a single 
> knowledgeable user. You're usually dealing with at least a few, and 
> each with varying technical aptitudes. In today's studios, you might 
> also be working with people across the globe who may work at different 
> hours or with some language barriers. The process of sharing these 
> customizations needs to be extremely simple, so that's why I'm asking 
> for the ability to save and load these configurations.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Brecht Van Lommel 
> <brechtvanlommel at pandora.be <mailto:brechtvanlommel at pandora.be>> wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-gamedev mailing list
> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> Brecht Van Lommel <mailto:brechtvanlommel at pandora.be>
> 10 października 2013 23:25
> Here's some feedback as a developer:
>
> A lot of customization is already possible by creating a custom
> startup.blend, along with scripts and addons that run on startup. It
> may not be a single file but it shouldn't be difficult to add a few
> files to the configuration folder, or even to distribute Blender with
> the configuration bundled?
>
> There are some limitations in our user interface code though, that
> make some types of changes impossible. Both addon writers and people
> who want to customize Blender would benefit from work on the API to
> make more customizations possible. And I think everyone agrees a
> better toolbar with custom toolshelfs is a feature we should have.
>
>
> However, personally, I think the challenge of making a complex
> application emulate another application, or even making a task
> oriented user interface, is underestimated. One reason is that I can't
> remember any complex application emulating another in a satisfying
> way. I've only ever seen it done poorly. Maybe you can link to some
> examples where it was done well? In my experience, if you have to work
> with a clone or restricted subset of some application, it's always
> going to be frustrating.
>
> If we talk about custom toolshelfs, key shortcuts, adding panels, and
> making these easy to share, then I agree, that's a good idea. Beyond
> that however, I'm a bit skeptical if anyone would actually invest the
> time to implement and maintain that kind of thing, and get a result
> that artists are happy with.
>
>
> Brecht.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-gamedev mailing list
> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> Colin Knueppel <mailto:colin.k.work at gmail.com>
> 10 października 2013 21:02
> I created this to send to the commiters group. I don't believe they 
> accepted the proposal for viewing. I'm posting it hear to see 
> developer response. Rather than making it a UI discussion, I've framed 
> it as a feature. I'm curious if the reasoning is compelling?
>
>
> It would be a great feature for developers to have the ability to 
> easily load layout, interface preferences and panel scripts with one 
> file.
>
> By allowing these three things to be modified by one file, it allows 
> the whole environment to be customed to particular tasks. This makes 
> creating environments to speed new workers into Blender possible. 
> Also, by making it as easy as one file to load, it becomes practical 
> for a studio to deploy over multiple workstations or to satellite 
> workers. Additionally, it encourages sharing, which may allow studios 
> to collaborate on tools and other panel innovations.
>
> Practical example:
> Say we hire a modeler that's very familiar with ZBrush. In preparation 
> for their arrival, we get to work on the environment they will use. 
> With the layout, we remove timeline and other general use panels. We 
> then recreate the left, right, top and bottom bars you'd see in many 
> art programs. We create subdivisions in those sidebars and populate 
> them with a script that calls graphical icons and ties them to blender 
> functions. We custom some panels to show material representations of 
> the current sculpting brush. Another panel to custom the Brush 
> behavior. Other panels to show the various brush presets you can 
> select from, and so on. We then go into the user interface and mimic 
> hotkeys from zbrush. When the new hire arrives, she or he will be 
> greeted with a somewhat familiar environment to get started. He or she 
> then can just get to work, losing little productivity and getting them 
> comfortable with some of Blender's great capabilities.
>
> Now lets say that hire is used to retopology and UV Unwrap in 3dsMax. 
> We could go through a similar process, recreating the environment, 
> hotkeys and some tools. With the ability to easily load the 
> environment, they could swap back and forth between the function of 
> modeling and the retopology and UV Unwrap in one file with relative 
> ease. Again, they'd lose less time learning Blender, but get to 
> appreciate the tool.
>
> Let's say one year down the line, our artist is really digging 
> Blender. They've gotten deeper into the functions and they see 
> potential for ways to use the program like no one would have expected. 
> With this feature, they could innovate a new layout and tools with 
> Blender. They could even share that design with other studios or the 
> community and enrich the program for everyone, or impress other 
> studios with the program's versatility.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-gamedev mailing list
> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> Colin Knueppel <mailto:colin.k.work at gmail.com>
> 9 października 2013 02:17
> But consider the process in total
>
> To follow the current system:
> User loads a file
> Saves the layout or tool
> Loads new file
> Selects that new layout or tool
> If user has custom keys for task, they need to load those as well
>
> Compare that to:
> Load a UI, presets and all
>
> Each task in the current circumstance is not hard, but it amounts to 
> needing explanation. Any user can understand the load UI, as we all 
> know how to load files. However, with the current system, many users 
> would need to be walked through the reasoning and steps to implement 
> any new layout or custom tool.
>
> Consider this process from a studio standpoint. We create a suite of 
> tools and layouts to address our various hires. We end up with 3 Maya 
> based layouts (modeling, uv/rigging/texture, animation), 3 max based 
> layouts, 1 texturer focused layout and a couple compositing layouts 
> (one to replace premiere). We have 12 workstations we want to deploy 
> it to. Load 9 files across 12 workstations, saving out each layout and 
> save interface presets where they can be easily loaded. Also, teach 
> each user to access interface presets and what that means. 
> Alternatively, hire a tech to create a deployment system (cost out of 
> pocket and always trial and error).
> Also, with Unknown worlds, we employ people from literally around the 
> world, Australia to Austria to England to US (east, middle and west) 
> and for a while the Philippines. People aren't even functioning at the 
> same time of day and often have some language barriers that cause 
> hickups.
>
> Compare that to:
> Save the file. Send it to each employee. They then just load it.
>
> The current system isn't hard, but it's not without some logistical 
> problems. The act of deploying becomes a burden. This discourages the 
> practice.
> If you made the experience encapsulated within a file, it becomes 
> something that people can simply share, use and learn from.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-gamedev mailing list
> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20131011/50af7e88/attachment-0001.htm 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: postbox-contact.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1131 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20131011/50af7e88/attachment-0002.jpg 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: compose-unknown-contact.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 770 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-gamedev/attachments/20131011/50af7e88/attachment-0003.jpg 