[Bf-compositor] [enh] labels and reorder inputs to help link nodes

Greg Zaal gregzzmail at gmail.com
Fri Feb 14 12:56:11 CET 2014 

Hey Francesco

Render layer bug is fixed now, and so is the issue with sockets that have
the same name (the Mix and Alpha Over in composite). Just download and
install again.

As for the workflow you suggested (menu, draw line, menu - not draw line,
menu, menu), I do agree that it'd be better, it was my original plan in
fact. I chose to do it this way just because it was easier to implement,
but I'll take a look again sometime.

Cheers,
Greg


On 14 February 2014 12:38, Francesco Paglia <f.paglia.80 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm nicely working with the Greg's improvement on the add on and actually
> I'm finding a strange behavior a kind of bug maybe...
>
> 1. Add 2 node not connected (say a mix and a blur... this doesn't really
> matter...)
> 2. add a alpha over not connected
> 3. CTRL + SHIFT from Mix to alpha over
> 4. select to: image (first row)
> 5. CTRL + SHIFT from blur to alpha over
> 6. select to: image (second row)
>
> In switch the connection of the first socket ...
> if you try step 6 to select the first row again it does the same thing...
> does it depends by the fact that "image" as string name of the socket is
> always recognized as the first one of the list of socket?
>
>
>
>
> 2014-02-14 7:48 GMT+01:00 Francesco Paglia <f.paglia.80 at gmail.com>:
>
> Hey Greg thank you for having implemented this awesome feature! Now I
>> really can compo having the whole tree in front of me instead of few nodes!!
>>
>> I just tested it and Have some small improvement if possible (probably
>> they are not... but let me ask as well) :
>> 1. RenderLayer show all the output that may be present even if there are
>> just a couple of them: can we filter out socket not present in the actual
>> node
>> 2.  Actual behavior is select firs node > select second node > choose
>> output > choose input, I think a better workflow would be select first node
>> >  choose output > select second node > choose input
>>
>> an extra consideration while working with many node: we could need to pan
>> through the node editor. It seems that actual gesture cannot give you the
>> chance to do it because (at least in 2.69) holding CTRL blender lock any
>> mouse pan or zoom.
>>
>> The best workflow ideally give us the chance to recognize the first node,
>> choose the required socket (if more than one is available), move around to
>> find the second node (with zoom and pan as needed), choose the socket in
>> the second node.
>>
>> Of course we can find workaround for this and the feature you added
>>  makes my workflow really faster! Thanks a lot!
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-02-14 5:14 GMT+01:00 Aditia A. Pratama <aditia.ap at gmail.com>:
>>
>> woaah, Greg that was awesome. So far I want to test it out and will let
>>> you know if I have any suggestions. Cheers !
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Greg Zaal <gregzzmail at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've attempted to implement a menu popup into Node Wrangler's lazy
>>>> connect function to address this issue of inaccurate/impossible linking
>>>> when zoomed out or with collapsed nodes:
>>>>
>>>> http://gregzaal.com/ss/LazyConnect.gif
>>>>
>>>> The original laziness is still in tact, hold Ctrl and RMB drag to make
>>>> a link based on best guess. But now, hold Ctrl+Shift+RMB drag and when you
>>>> let go, a menu pops up and you choose which input from the first node to
>>>> connect to which output of the second node. It still works off the nodes
>>>> nearest to the beginning and end of the drawn line, so you can be zoomed
>>>> out far as you like and still make connections accurately.
>>>>
>>>> The code is on our own little github:
>>>> https://github.com/gregzaal/node_wrangler/blob/master/node_wrangler_wip.py
>>>> I'll commit it to trunk after some cleaning.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps, and let me know if you have any suggestions :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 February 2014 13:40, Bartek Skorupa (priv) <
>>>> bartekskorupa at bartekskorupa.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>
>>>>> I will talk with Greg about this. I'm not sure if this is even
>>>>> possible to do in the add-on, but we'll do our best.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Bartek Skorupa
>>>>>
>>>>> www.bartekskorupa.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 lut 2014, at 11:26, Francesco Paglia <f.paglia.80 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the Blenderleo idea fits perfectly my first proposal adding a
>>>>> way to select the correct layer when there are many output sockets.
>>>>> When dragging in a noodle to a node the panel just open automatically
>>>>> to select the right output
>>>>> In the other way around pressing Alt + rightclick on a node shows a
>>>>> pop up with all the output node, the selected one will be directly linked
>>>>> to the noodle that have to be put to the input socket.
>>>>>
>>>>> @Bartek
>>>>> I'm still using 2.69 while in production with an online team I can't
>>>>> switch to daily build... I can't track who's using what.
>>>>> And Greg wasn't clear enough because he did't mention  his other great
>>>>> addition!
>>>>> I must test a build now! :)
>>>>> Just how does it works the view image feature that is mentioned but
>>>>> not explained in the official documentation?
>>>>>
>>>>> About the swap you can imagine this:  it should be possible to make a
>>>>> list of socket of the same type and the general idea is to move the first
>>>>> element of the list to the next position so other does.. in fact this can
>>>>> be useful to quickly swap noodle on a "2socket condition" or to move a
>>>>> single (as well as few) noodle through all the available socket...
>>>>> In fact if I have 10 socket to manage probably I will modify them
>>>>> manually instead of using a shortcut.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ciao
>>>>> Francesco
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-02-07 20:43 GMT+01:00 Blenderleo <blenderleo at gmx.de>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have another idea, that's more consistent with the existing UI of
>>>>>> blender.
>>>>>> A similar problem, when one is trying to select a specific object in
>>>>>> Object Mode, is cleverly solved by the Alt-Select function (Alt-Rightclick
>>>>>> brings up an popup where you can select one of all overlapping objects by
>>>>>> name).
>>>>>> For the node popup, the names of the Sockets (e.g. "Z-Scale") and the
>>>>>> type (as icon in front of the name, like in other popups; maybe simply
>>>>>> filled circles in the corresponding color) should be displayed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But having any of the previous ideas in blender would also be great!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7. Februar 2014 15:31:39 MEZ, Francesco Paglia <
>>>>>> f.paglia.80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> thanks for your consideration and sorry for coming back so late! :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Sean thanks for your appreciation and your suggestion that made me
>>>>>>> think further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Greg, thanks for the suggestion, I must admit I've never used the
>>>>>>> add on I'll give it a try as soon as I finish to write this e-mail!...
>>>>>>> however I don't like in general to have something guess the socket for me
>>>>>>> since as an example an Render layer or a group can have multiple output
>>>>>>> socket and most of them are of the same type.. so "the guess solution"
>>>>>>> require lot of time to modify the noodle manually...
>>>>>>> The panel solution let everything go straight to the required result
>>>>>>> without the need to check what someone else is doing for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Lukas, a greater area for plugging noodles would be a great
>>>>>>> addition, so we don't have to zoom in and out every time we need to connect
>>>>>>> two nodes.
>>>>>>> In my workflow I always try to maintain the nodes collapsed because
>>>>>>> I find myself all the time too zoomed (to read or edit the values of a
>>>>>>> node)  that the node easily become too big to be quickly connected... or I
>>>>>>> have too many noodles around that the autoconnect feature requires me to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. add the node trying to avoid any involuntary connection,
>>>>>>> 2. collapse it,
>>>>>>> 3. move it around to autolink the right noodle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not a very efficient workflow.. or at least a friendly one! :)
>>>>>>> About the side panel
>>>>>>> The general idea is to have a quick way to easily recognize what is
>>>>>>> linked to what since when a node is collapsed nothing is readable.
>>>>>>> We should try to figure out which is the best way to let us quickly
>>>>>>> recognize the socket name and, in case of need, an easy way to reorganize
>>>>>>> the noodles.
>>>>>>> Sean introduced an interesting idea and a way to magnify a node to
>>>>>>> edit connection could be an interesting solution as well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my humble opinion nodes actually suffer of their  "all the
>>>>>>> parameter have to be shown in the node" design that enables nodes of any
>>>>>>> height that are difficult to manage, fill up the screen in a matter of
>>>>>>> second.. add 3/4  colour correction or colour balance and suddenly there's
>>>>>>> no room left for other nodes! :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe we can reduce all our needs to having the nodes that show only
>>>>>>> the inputs (and outputs) and a magnify glass that shows the required node
>>>>>>> to a readable dimension, In a matter of seconds we have nodes of a
>>>>>>> reasonable size, all the parameter put in the side panel (that needs a
>>>>>>> reorder of the tabs... grease pencil cannot be the first of the list but it
>>>>>>> should be the properties panel... )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In case we'd like to save more space collapsing the nodes to their
>>>>>>> minimum size we could easily follow the previous idea of the labels and to
>>>>>>> read nodes inputs we can still maintain the non collapsed version while
>>>>>>> magnifying the node... Hope This makes sense...
>>>>>>> Let me show a quick mockup:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sFO375sUry8/UvTp5RP2-dI/AAAAAAAAIBY/NgFy05-gGdM/w1228-h874-no/nodes_base.png
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine this behavior:
>>>>>>> 1. select and drag from the output socket of a node to create a
>>>>>>> noodle
>>>>>>> 2. move the mouse over the node we need as input
>>>>>>> 3. press "z" (I used this key just because represent zoom but we can
>>>>>>> choose whichever we like) to magnify the node
>>>>>>> 4. release the noodle in the correct socket
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2014-02-06 19:31 GMT+01:00 Sean Kennedy <mack_dadd2 at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I love Francesco's ideas! They would certainly make me more apt
>>>>>>>> to leave nodes collapsed, resulting in a cleaner node view.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At Rhythm & Hues, our in-house software (which you can see here:
>>>>>>>> http://jennepstein.com/beatthisaruna.jpg ) had a great feature
>>>>>>>> that when you were about to connect a noodle to a node, the node would zoom
>>>>>>>> in - or rather, it would scale up while you hovered over it, making it much
>>>>>>>> easier to select an input if you were zoomed out pretty far from the entire
>>>>>>>> node tree. As soon as you connected the node, the little scale up node
>>>>>>>> preview would vanish.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Francesco's mock-up is just as useful, and I would use it every
>>>>>>>> time I was in the compositor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:52:18 +0100
>>>>>>>> From: lukas.toenne at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: bf-compositor at blender.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Bf-compositor] [enh] labels and reorder inputs to
>>>>>>>> help link nodes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I quite like the general idea. Working with collapsed nodes is
>>>>>>>> really limiting atm. Have to think about how such popups can be implemented
>>>>>>>> without too much complexity and chaos on the lower ui code level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another idea to make linking easier on expanded (not collapsed)
>>>>>>>> nodes could be to allow more leeway for selecting sockets: Instead of
>>>>>>>> requiring accurate placement on the socket circle we could just detect
>>>>>>>> "user points at node X" and then choose the *closest* socket for connecting
>>>>>>>> (even use the whole height range of the node). This should be fairly easy
>>>>>>>> to implement and not require a whole lot of ui design changes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not so sure about dragging in the sidebar buttons. Not every
>>>>>>>> socket type has values and it's a bit tricky to associate a generic button
>>>>>>>> with a node socket cleanly. To make this work nicely there should at least
>>>>>>>> be a symbolic representation for every socket (input value button or no),
>>>>>>>> which can be the hook for reconnecting. Even so it could still have corner
>>>>>>>> cases and needs careful consideration. With the features for the main
>>>>>>>> editor mentioned above it may not be necessary to go this far anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Francesco Paglia <
>>>>>>>> f.paglia.80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> link nodes is quite an hard task now, especially if we have too
>>>>>>>> many nodes that requires to zoom out a bit and if we decide to use
>>>>>>>> collapsed node to maintain the tree more clean.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to propose to add a sort of labeling solution so once we
>>>>>>>> have to plug in a noddle we just drag it on the node (without caring on the
>>>>>>>> right position)  and an easy to read panel can appear with the list of all
>>>>>>>> the available input so we can choose which one we need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I made just a quick mockup to shot my idea, hope you will find it
>>>>>>>> interesting to discuss since in my opinion this solution can incredibly
>>>>>>>> speed up the workflow without having to zoom in and out every few seconds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here the sample:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-maT-WogxB40/UvN0LVE5eRI/AAAAAAAAIAA/z3E51gAxRFc/w1150-h874-no/LABELING.png
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> always going on the same path would be very efficient to have in
>>>>>>>> the side panel the complete list of the inputs that can be resorted
>>>>>>>> easily... Imagine this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I drag a node in an input of a   "RGB curves" node,
>>>>>>>> I make an error and instead of plugging the noddle to the "image"
>>>>>>>> input I put it in the "black level"
>>>>>>>> it would be a very great addition the ability to simply drag in the
>>>>>>>> "inputs panel" the linked value to the desired input...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here a quick visual mockup
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0uWo0AFcuag/UvN7ri2wb3I/AAAAAAAAIA4/SPlyYSkeuFA/w1292-h594-no/resort_inputs.png
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Francesco
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Francesco Paglia
>>>>>>>> Vfx and Production Supervisor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Bf-compositor
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Francesco Paglia
>>>>>>> Vfx and Production Supervisor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mobile  +39 347.82.12.473
>>>>>>> e-mail   f.paglia.80 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-compositor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>  <http://kampoongmonster.com>
>>>
>>> Aditia A. Pratama / Chief Technical Officer
>>> +62 813 4747 8111/ aditia at kampoongmonster.com
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Francesco Paglia
>> Vfx and Production Supervisor
>>
>> mobile  +39 347.82.12.473
>> e-mail   f.paglia.80 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Francesco Paglia
> Vfx and Production Supervisor
>
> mobile  +39 347.82.12.473
> e-mail   f.paglia.80 at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-compositor mailing list
> Bf-compositor at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-compositor
>
>
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