[Bf-committers] A proposal for further 2.5x UI evolution

Vilem Novak pildanovak at post.cz
Fri Dec 17 12:44:27 CET 2010

> ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
> Od: Troy Sobotka <troy.sobotka at gmail.com>
> Předmět: Re: [Bf-committers] A proposal for further 2.5x UI evolution
> Datum: 16.12.2010 23:22:10
> ----------------------------------------
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Vilem Novak <pildanovak at post.cz> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >  I put together a proposal for some further possible changes in the 2.5x UI.
> I cannot comment on some of the more modelling centric elements, as I
> don't have much experience with them to comment. Specifically however,
> I found two elements of your discussion interesting:

Hello Troy,
There is no modeling centered part in the proposal, maybe you are reffering to the part about tools access?
So are you working as animator in blender?

> > "mixed panel order"
> Panels need to be adjusted based upon artist workflow and area of
> expertise. When you fix panel locations, you are forcing an artistic
> workflow without knowing what exactly the given artist is seeking to
> achieve. Compositing, modelling, rendering looks, rigging, etc. are
> all _radically_ different workflows that will prioritize different
> panels over others.
> An advanced artists tool such as Blender makes no assumptions about
> workflows or artist needs and allows the artists to make these
> fundamental adjustments.

Several points to this one.
1st, the proposed solution doesn't need panel reshuffling,
 because all properties are accessible with less clicks than in current solution.
Please, just try to do 1 worksession for a time and compare the current solution to this one, 
count how much clicks less would you do.
2nd. I think you are making assumptions that I am making assumptions, but I am talking about my experience.
I worked with blender for 10 years,
 I worked on more smaller projects in teams and for a year in a studio with 50 3d and even more compositing artists.
And yes, artist often change position of work areas, but panels are a part of an area, and I never ever saw somebody 
willingly to do this.
When there was a custom ui aspect for a project(mostly several scripted commands to ease some tasks),
 the UI for that was done by a scripter, but it was really minor and it's what the addons system enables you very nicely.
I like the high level possibility in blender to quickly reorganize your areas, 
and I think it's the level of customization that is really vital.

> > "uneven height of a panel stack"
> > is less bad as previous, but still adds a lot to "searching time"
> Scanning is something that pertains to a very specific audience
> segment, in particular, new and hobby individuals that likely won't be
> spending much time with an application. Sacrificing in the name of
> this segment is questionable given the nature of the application.

This is completely opposite to my experience. I wasn't talking about the initial steps of reading an application.
Please read the first section of the proposal for this.

> > "not foldable(who
> > DOESN'T want to see what he's actually doing?
> Here you are making an assumption that you know what the artist is
> doing or attempting to do. It is the same sort of small assumption
> that leads one reading your sentence to imply an assumed male artist.
> Again, not all panels relate to a given workflow or set of tasks.
> Being able to customize those panels to suit the workflows is
> absolutely mandatory. This is something that the Blender interface
> design has taken into account and has delivered.
> The changes listed seem to be rooted in a distinct lack of screen real
> estate, something that again Blender makes no assumptions about.

Please, can you post me a scenario where your points come from yourexperience?
Best would be if you could upload some of your production files(without data), 
 of a project where cooperation of more people was involved,
 so I could try to analyze them and correct the proposal accordingly?
I am especially curious about the case the artist doesn't want to see a texture he/she is editing, or a material.
The he/she element was my bad english, not another "assumption", sorry for that.

> Making dubious changes as suggested would intrinsically crippled
> Blender's ability to deal with large display workspace formats.

I have 2 rather big screens for my workstation,
 If you are talking about the ability of blender filling both monitors with plenty of property editing sidebars etc. then yes,
 I was targetting reduction of this new phenomenon. 
It seems that with everything visible, 
the properties are accessible faster. 
But, you have to look, and you have to scroll. 
Remember that clicking is actually faster than looking, and in a good written ui, 
I don't have to look to see if my property is there.
also as said, my proposal talks about outliner, which definitely needs more space.
Again, screenshots of ui would be good.

> Sincerely,
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