[Bf-committers] Women and Open Source (Fwd: Call for diversity)

[Toni Alatalo]

(am sorry to break email threading here, can't reply properly 'cause 
had delivery off for the list due to some holiday email hassle)

Jim Smyth wrote:

> I don't think that the lack of women is specific to Open Source, but
> IT and sciences in general. Frankly, the only thing that should really

Yah I don't think anyone has suggested that, but the keynote was given 
at an OS conf, and this is an OS project, and perhaps there is 
something OS projects can do about it.

> "After all, as Kirrily pointed out, the more inclusive we are, the
> more people we have working on Python." - This seems to imply the
> problem is that Python discourages women from joining development,
> which is certainly not the case.

I don't think anyone has suggested that either.

> As far as I can tell, development on Blender (like python) is entirely
> results-driven and I've never heard of anyone on this project (or
> really any major OSS project) turned away or discouraged for reasons
> of race, gender, or creed. Mandating diversity is no better than
> mandating homogeneity. Let's concern ourselves only with what a person
> contributes to the project and ignore everything else, because it
> really shouldn't matter.

Agreed, that's what we do, I think quite well, and should continue to 
do. I don't think anyone in the talks I referred has differed  here, 
but quite reverse, know and understand this well.


> If you really see gender balance as a problem that needs to be
> addressed, please realize that the problem isn't on this end. The
> problem is core cultural values that teach women that math and
> technology are fields for men and many cultures actively discourage
> women from entering those fields. These issues must be addressed by

Right, I also believe this is mostly about historical legacy (the 
situation you describe there was very extreme in years 1700-1800 or so 
when universities had studies like esthetics so that women could also 
have some nice fancy hobby, whereas science was supposedly reserved for 
men. Lady Ada and other heroes from those ages being rare exceptions, 
like Marie Curie later etc).

I think this is exactly why it should be corrected, 'cause it's just 
stupid.

> those respective cultures, and really is outside the purview of
> projects such as this.

The whole point is that perhaps projects like Blender and Python can 
help that change. I don't think we should just close our eyes and raise 
our hands and think that it's not our problem. It's probably not (much) 
our fault at all, like said above, but that's irrelevant /if/ there is 
something *sensible*, no matter how little, that we could do about it.

I don't believe large changes in cultures start by some grand political 
actions, but in small grassroots activities that slowly grow and 
suddenly have resulted in significant changes, and then after many 
years the politicians etc. notice them too.

I don't know if there is some such sensible thing we could do. Any 
mandates or special treatments or anything like that I think would be 
just stupid, I don't think anyone has considered those.

Elubie mentioned yesterday on irc when basically these same points were 
made that one factor is the lack of role models for women in this. That 
obviously results from the culture-historical legacy. Perhaps that is 
one area where with some clever communications / PR something could be 
done somewhere.

Basically all I'm saying here is that if someone within Blender is 
interested and/or knowledgeable in this, perhaps he/she can participate 
in the talks with other open source projects on the fora dedicated to 
this issue, and if some nice activity is planned there, it would be 
good for Blender to participate too. I don't suggest this list would be 
the place to solve the issue once and for all for everyone, just 
forwarded the post in case someone would be interested.

~Toni