[Bf-webcontent] Re: Menu nearly done

Bart Veldhuizen bart at vrotvrot.com
Fri Feb 25 08:09:43 CET 2005 

Hi Johannes,

I think I miss something here; the list that Aeggy and I use looks like 
this. That's the same structure, right?

<ul id="top_nav">
	<li id="mAbout"><a href="#"><div class="ctr">About Blender</div></a>
		<ul>
			<li><a href="#"><div class="spc"></div>Features</a></li>
			<li><a href="#"><div class="spc"></div>Gallery</a></li>

			<li><a href="#"><div class="spc"></div>Applications</a></li>
		</ul>
	</li>
	
	<li id="mDownload"><a href="#"><div class="ctr">Download</div></a>
		<ul>
			<li><a href="#"><div class="spc"></div>1</a></li>
			<li><a href="#"><div class="spc"></div>2</a></li>

			<li><a href="#"><div class="spc"></div>3</a></li>
		</ul>
	</li>

....
</ul>


Op 25-feb-05 om 0:00 heeft Johannes Langlotz het volgende geschreven:

> Hi Bart (NL),
>
> I have no problem with the list. I just see how many problems it 
> brings with it. I started to create websites when I was 17 and I 
> learnd one thing fast: SIMPLE! The visitor does not see how it is 
> made! It just should work.
>
> > Nesting lists inside each other is valid in this context I believe.
>
> Yes it is. But shouldn't the b3d list look like this:
>
> <ul>
>   <li>About Blender
>     <ul>
>       <li>Features</li>
>       <li>Gallery</li>
>       <li>Testimonials</li>
>       <li>Applications</li>
>       <li>Requirements</li>
>     </ul>
>   </li>
>   <li>Downloads
>     <ul>
>       <li>Blender</li>
>       <li>....</li>
>     </ul>
>   </li>
>   <li>InfoCenter
>     <ul>
>       <li>...</li>
>     </ul>
>   </li>
>   <li>...</li>
> </ul>
>
> What I mean with "one list" is: ONE mainlist with several sublists! 
> This list should represent the whole menu tree. Now there is one list 
> for "About Blender" one for "Downloads" one for "InfoCenter"...
>
> I want to emphasize again: I am not against the list! I am against the 
> complexity of javascript and css and the resulting browser problems!
>
>
> Johannes
>
>
>
>
> Bart Veldhuizen schrieb:
>> Hi Johannes,
>> when talking to our designers at work, I learned that semantically, a 
>> menu is nothing more than a list. So from the point of view of 
>> describing only content in your xhtml file this seems to make a lot 
>> of sense. Nesting lists inside each other is valid in this context I 
>> believe. However, you are right about the font issue.
>> Still, I'm not a designer - just a webmonkey who sometimes hears cool 
>> things at work ;-) I wonder how Bart (we NEED to differentiate our 
>> names here! ;-) and Chris feel about this? Nothing wrong with a nice 
>> bit of discussion!
>> Bart
>> Op 24-feb-05 om 21:22 heeft Johannes Langlotz het volgende geschreven:
>>> OK, now I will tattle a bit ;-) . I like standards very much. BUT to 
>>> make this kind of menu (with pulldown menus) with lists makes it 
>>> only complicated. And you are using several lists not only one like 
>>> it should be. Besides you have to work with much fixed sizes and 
>>> absolute positioning (e.g. for menu entries). And in course of that, 
>>> it chops the menu if a user has a larger default font size. I don't 
>>> want to run down your work (bart and bart)! In my opinion it should 
>>> be as simple as possible in course of the variety of browsers and 
>>> rendering engines.
>>>
>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/mainmenu.js
>>>
>>> This is all JS I use for a text based menu. No need for if(IE) 
>>> elseif(NN)... And that's why it works on every browser which I was 
>>> able to test.
>>>
>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/index.html
>>>
>>> I hate that every browser has its pros and cons (especially IE has 
>>> cons ;-) ) but that's why it should be simple.
>>>
>>>
>>> Johannes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bart Veldhuizen schrieb:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>> I checked and it's not the javascript file, but there's something 
>>>> in the header image that causes IE5/Mac to crash. Not sure what it 
>>>> is yet... Anyway, when I remove the header graphic everything is 
>>>> ok.
>>>> Some more observations: In IE5/Mac there's a lot of flashing; it 
>>>> would seem that there are some conflicting color definitions. In 
>>>> E5.5/Win2K there's a strange effect around the mousecursor: move 
>>>> the mouse over the menu and into the dropdown. Move it around 
>>>> quickly and you will see a 'square' around the cursor.
>>>> Bart
>>>> Op 24-feb-05 om 10:14 heeft Bart het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>>>
>>>>> no problem adding the font definitions. Tested my menu under Opera 
>>>>> 7.5 on Windows and it works perfect on IE 5 too. Will test it on 
>>>>> my mac later this day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bart Veldhuizen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bart,
>>>>>> it works like a charm in Firefox and Opera on Mac. It 
>>>>>> *completely* crashes IE5 on my Mac though. I have tracked it down 
>>>>>> to the javascript that sets the onMouseOver events; I'll look 
>>>>>> into that tonight.
>>>>>> Johannes has also started fiddling with the menu; he kind of 
>>>>>> missed the point of building an xhtml/css menu though. One thing 
>>>>>> that I do like about his version is the fonts: they are a bit 
>>>>>> more readable and more like the current menu. Could you copy the 
>>>>>> font definition into your version?
>>>>>> http://www.webminster.de/extern/b3d/
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Bart
>>>>>> Op 24-feb-05 om 0:38 heeft Bart het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Bart,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> here is a clean version of the menu working fine in FireFox and 
>>>>>>> IE 6. Not tested with IE 5 on Win and Mac. There is a problem 
>>>>>>> now with Opera 7.20 it doesn't show the dropdown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problems where like ever located in the different 
>>>>>>> interpretation of the CSS box model, that IE does only accept 
>>>>>>> hover styles with a tag and the different interpretation of css 
>>>>>>> command text-align.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can test it on safari i can give it a try on IE 5 on mac 
>>>>>>> and win. Of course i will find the opera bug. For that i can 
>>>>>>> test it on Opera 7.5 too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Put it here too:
>>>>>>> http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm on it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> |\/\/\/|
>>>>>>> |      |
>>>>>>> | (O)(O)        Bart.
>>>>>>> C      _)       bart at neeneenee.de
>>>>>>> |   ,_/
>>>>>>> |   /    - Ich bin nicht berechtigt Aushilfslehrer zu feuern -
>>>>>>> /   \
>>>>>>>                 http://www.neeneenee.de
>>>>>>> <org.zip>
>>>>
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