[Bf-viewport] Blender 2.8 Viewport Development

[Nahuel Belich]

Hi, just an user opinion here.
That Lagoa interface its incredible, and its a really neat way to view the models(and that ik system WOW!), however as clean as it  looks, in some point blender should have a way to clearly see and control points and edges, no wireframe view, its ok, but at least in shade mode its required a way to see and control those edges (the visible and the invisible ones, which at the moment are not controlable, a different topic no view related)
Why do we modelers need to see that?? because that lagoa or SketchUp works in a way that topology doesn`t matters so much, like if those program uses nurbs or something similar, thing that its great for archviz or industrial design but no so much for game development or subD Catmull based modeling, in which the position of each edge and vertex counts. 
Using wire frames to see the reference mesh or reference image to model its not a must actually, a transparent model with an opacity mask by shading on the edges could work (if it is posible to do that O.o) adding color code using the depth buff to see the edges closer one color and the further once in a different color o invisible, not sure as i said im only a user, but once again, a way to control and see that internal estructure its required for lots of modeling at the moment. 

If the future shows a free form modeling way of using models trough the industry vfx, arch viz, game art, not having to worry about where the edges flow, that its going to be great.

The only way i see to forget about full wire mesh view in a near future, its if Blender had an automatic quad loop mesh system that is robust enough to put the loops on the lines the best and optimal way(thing that its almost imposible, nor zremesh, 3dcoat or any automatic tool can do that at the moment), allowing the user to stop worrying about the edge(main, secondary and insible) flows. 

With the new Dx12, Metal and Vulkan there may be a chance that in a near future with adaptive subdivision tech a topology control wont be require any more, but i assume that that its going to be decided by the big developers and tech companies (amd, nvidia, Kronos, intel, Pixar, Apple, etc etc etc) maybe they have something on their  labs that would be great to know about :) 

Cheers

Nahuel Belich
https://www.blendernetwork.org/nahuel-belich
  

    El Miércoles, 28 de septiembre, 2016 15:51:05, Ton Roosendaal <ton at blender.org> escribió:
 

 Hi,
Hey. I'm mostly just teasing, I really have nothing against wires or line drawing! 
I want to inspire everyone to rethink old conventions with fresh minds and make sure we're developing a strong vision for how a 3d creation tool would look like in the next decade. 
For example: also CAD and Archviz software are developing very fast, they explore ways to make architects and designers more productive. We should embrace that too and dare to innovate.
(* Just one example: http://home.lagoa.com/)
-Ton-

--------------------------------------------------------
Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
Chairman Blender Foundation, Producer Blender InstituteSupport us - join blender.cloud or Blender Dev Fund.

On 28 Sep 2016, at 01:18, Carlo Andreacchio <carlo at convergen.com.au> wrote:
Hi all, nice work with laying the framework for the viewport development.
I have a little bit of feedback on the blog post.
> Groundbreak to illustrate how wireframes are a poor choice for some (if not all) tasks
I understand that this is under the character modelling part of the document, however there was no other area for modelling.
Underneath under shading section of the blog post, I do not see a pure wireframe mode, there is solid wireframe overlays, and depth wires (which I assume is wireframe mode but it clips off the wires behind it from the faces). Removing wireframe mode hinder the experience of a archviz / infrastructure viz artist.

Wireframe is essential for tracing out images / pdfs which contain plans (of buildings / roads / pathways etc.etc.etc). In an ideal world the plans would be all in vector formats, but from real world deliveries, most of the time they are flattened pdfs.
In addition to plan modelling, we also sometimes receive models created by automatic means (lidar / dem / etc.etc.etc), and sometimes models from programs that do not export nicely. These models usually come with internal faces, overlapping faces and other craziness which is not blenders fault. Wireframe is essential to cleaning up these meshes in preparation for use for render.
Talking with our other artists, they all agree that its great that blender is trying to change up the workflow & excited for the new options they are suggesting, but wireframe mode is a modelling essential for archviz.
It would be great to get the developer's thoughts on this and keep the discussion open.
Kind RegardsCarlo_______________________________________________
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