[Bf-viewport] Blender 2.8 Viewport Development

[Dalai Felinto]

Hi Brecht,

> There's lots of questions I could ask about the specific implementations, but it's probably too early for that.

It is indeed. But if you have something in mind we will love to hear it.

>  The relation between realtime Blender Internal and the PBR viewport is not clear to me.

There is no real relation between them. The PBR realtime solution is
aimed at Cycles and external game engines.

That said, we are not simply making sure all the Blender Internal GLSL
nodes look the same in viewport as they do in offline rendering. We
will most likely have to resort to techniques used by PBR game engines
- cubemaps, screen reflections, SSAO, ...).

> It's not really obvious where tasks fit. We have screens which also corresponds to a specific workflow or "task", but it's not as fine grained. Multiple viewports in a screen could have different shading but not a different object mode. The easiest would be to say a task is a shading mode preset, but maybe there's ideas here to tie screens/modes/tools into it as well.

A task is a shading mode preset (different options per plates and all
that), also tied to a mode and in some cases tools (e.g., mesh
widgets).

I have to confirm this with Sergey, but I believe the way he is
designing the "datagraph" we will be able to have different viewports
working in different modes. On top of it, someone artists like to
always work in maximized editor, so the idea of a Screen with
pre-defined 'plates-presets' for a given workflow may be less relevant
than allowing for quickly switch (or tweak) a 'plates-preset' from
within a viewport. A user is not expected to "multi-task" anyways. But
basically to go over different tasks back and forth during a given
workflow.

This is also something to be tackled at the workflow and usability
sprint in late November, since it involves the usability of Blender as
a whole, not only the viewport.

> * Alpha order handling seems a like it could be something that makes cleanly separating plates tricky, but I guess this a general problem in realtime rendering.

I will leave this for Clément or Mike to reply. But I believe that
engines like Unreal handles PBR, screen shaders (SSRD, SSAO, ...) and
alpha with no problems.

Regards,
Dalai
--
blendernetwork.org/dalai-felinto
www.dalaifelinto.com


2016-09-27 18:10 GMT-03:00 Brecht Van Lommel <brechtvanlommel at pandora.be>:
> Thanks for the write up! Great to see the ideas that have been
> floating around confirmed in this document. There's lots of questions
> I could ask about the specific implementations, but it's probably too
> early for that. But a few general ones:
>
> * The relation between realtime Blender Internal and the PBR viewport
> is not clear to me. Would the plan be to maintain the existing BI
> shading/lighting system, and add a PBR system in addition, or would
> they overlap, get merged or share code somehow?
>
> * It's not really obvious where tasks fit. We have screens which also
> corresponds to a specific workflow or "task", but it's not as fine
> grained. Multiple viewports in a screen could have different shading
> but not a different object mode. The easiest would be to say a task is
> a shading mode preset, but maybe there's ideas here to tie
> screens/modes/tools into it as well.
>
> * Alpha order handling seems a like it could be something that makes
> cleanly separating plates tricky, but I guess this a general problem
> in realtime rendering. I'm not too familiar with the latest methods
> though so perhaps there's algorithms that fit the plates model well.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Dalai Felinto <dfelinto at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> For the past few days we had a Blender 2.8 viewport development
>> workshop at the Blender Institute.
>>
>> We focused our discussions in the user experience, but deliverables
>> were decised based on the expected progression of the code
>> development. The implementation and usability (UI, ...) are still
>> pending, but the big picture here presented is enough to structure the
>> oncoming code architecture.
>>
>> The overall design was just posted on the development blog:
>> https://code.blender.org/2016/09/blender-2-8-viewport-development/ ‎
>>
>> We welcome any comments and feedback you may have *BUT* please let's
>> use the bf-viewport mailing list for that, just to keep it more
>> focused.
>>
>> Apart from that we will soon announce an open-call for helping with
>> the OpenGL immediate mode to modern OpenGL effort. That will be the
>> easiest way for other developers to get involved with the viewport
>> project.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Dalai
>> --
>> blendernetwork.org/dalai-felinto
>> www.dalaifelinto.com
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