[Bf-modeling] Mirror Editing

Sun Jun 16 07:59:48 CEST 2013

Hi, looked further into this... ack!
This option was added, only so it could be always disabled (without
the option the mirror setting would be used for extrude-transform
which fails as we have seen).

So - solution is to hide the button since this is really an
implementation detail (committed, bug closed)

@Jonathan, topology mirror has the main advantage (when it works),
that you can use mirror weight paint onto an asymmetrical model as
long as it has symmetrical topology.
The problem it suffers from is it fails in very simple cases - like a
cube,. So users tend to test it and think its broken. But for more
complex character models I found it works fairly well, (All BBB
characters work for example (with exception of birds feet))..... this
should really be better documented though.

A few other related points on mirror,

One of the things that bothers me a bit about mirror is how it
silently fails, so you enable the option then *hope* it works,

Recently I've change weight paint-mirror and select-mirror to report
when mirror fails in the headers info text [Mirrored 123 Verts, 3
Failed].
Having these reports for transform might be useful to let you know not
everything mirrors or, if you have mirror enabled by accident which is
probably more common.

But I can imagine they would get annoying, for transform its more
obvious when mirror fails too, since you just wave the mouse around
and you can see whats not moving, for weight paint mirror its a lot
less clear what happens.
--- anyway, if any of you think we need to make tools communicate
better what happens with mirror, I'm interested to know.

One last thing, When importing models that are mostly symmetrical, but
not 100% I found it annoying and there is no good way to `snap to
mirrored`,
so probably blender should have a tool that does this built-in.

On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 5:49 AM, metalliandy
<metalliandy666 at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yea, I agree with Jonathan. It's not something I have ever used and I would
> also vote for removing it from extrude altogether if it can't be fixed.
> Mirror editing is a very important feature, but I generally go straight for
> the mirror modifier rather than using anything else because it is so robust
> and reliable.
>
> I'm not 100% sure that the mirror option is something that really needs
> developing currently as people have a solid way to do this already with the
> mirror modifier.
>
> It might be an idea to gauge how long it will take to fix and just move onto
> something else if it is going to take ages...at least for the moment.
>
> @Jonathan, It is my understanding that Topology mirror should detect
> symmetry in a mesh automatically along any given axis where the
> vertices/faces have the same topology but their positions in 3d space are
> modified. It doesn't work how I would expect either as the edits seem to be
> linked to the side being modified directly if the mirror modifier was being
> used, which isn't very useful really. I would expect the edits to be
> relative to their individual positions (1 vert. moved in Z by 1 unit would
> move the mirrored vert up in Z by 1 unit too and not to whatever the parent
> vert. currently is).
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Andy
>
>
> On 15/06/2013 16:21, Jonathan Williamson wrote:
>
> I have actually never once tried to use Mirror Editing on Extrude until
> today. I don't think I knew it was there... It's definitely very broken and
> inconsistent at the moment so at the very least I vote to remove it from
> extrude.
>
> However, regular Mirror Editing is incredibly handy for those times that you
> need it. My preference would be to try and make it work as all around as
> possible. If I could choose, I would first opt for full settings support
> (seams, sharpness, creases), as this is what I most commonly want out of it.
> Then after setting support the tool support (extrude, subdivide, bridge,
> etc) would be great. I don't see any reason to split it into Off, On, and On
> + Tools. I'd vote for just Off/On. This keeps it simple for users.
>
> I think this is an important tool to fully support, rather than just going
> for the Mirror modifier, particularly for those times that you have a model
> that is 90% symmetrical. For example, perhaps I've altered a characters head
> to make it more interesting and asymmetrical but the rest of the model is
> symmetrical. I can't really use a mirror modifier in this case, but the
> Mirror Editing would be ideal.
>
> As one last thought, I have no idea what Topology Mirror does. I can't never
> seem to get it to work like I'd expect. How's it work?
>
> Jonathan Williamson
> http://cgcookie.com
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:04 AM, Campbell Barton <ideasman42 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> To kick off discussion - one feature Id like to either improve or
>> remove is extrude `Mirror Editing` option.
>> Bug report (only if your interested in details)
>>
>> http://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=33374&group_id=9&atid=498
>>
>>
>> Note that there are only a few tools that support mirror (besides
>> painting, weight paint)
>> - Transform
>> - Smooth
>> - Subdivide smooth did in 2.4x
>> - Extrude
>>
>> Extrude aside, I'd also like to consider if we want to try to make
>> mirror editing generally more useful to the point that users can
>> expect most edits to one half of a mesh will happen to the other...
>>
>> Since supporting mirror-extrude only is a bit arbitrary IMHO.
>>
>>
>> We could make it work on editing operations like
>> subdivide/bridge/inset/bevel, simply by mirroring the selection before
>> the operator runs, clearing the selection after.
>>
>> Also setting properties (edge sharp, crease, assigning materials,
>> flipping normals) could be made to work...
>>
>> Having options for each tool would get annoying, so we could have 3
>> states [Mirror: Off|Enabled|Enabled+Tools] --- names could be better,
>> Enabled would be for transform only, tools would make all editing
>> operations mirror.
>>
>>
>> OR ... we could just assume that if people really want to mirror a
>> model they will use the mirror-modifier or edit then symmetrize and
>> not loose our development time attempting to make every tool support
>> mirror operations.
>> - Just remove extrude mirror option and keep mirror limited to a few
>> tools as it is now.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>> --
>> - Campbell
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>
>
>
>
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-- 
- Campbell