[Bf-interface] Top-Bar Design Details?

[Julian Eisel]

Note that the 2.8 UI workshop write-up *does* explain why something
like the top-bar is needed. It keeps things brief but covers the
reasons.

I also second what Mike said. Blender doesn't try to be different just
for the sake of being different.
I'd like to point out that the top-bar will *not* be a ribbon bar like
known from other apps. Neither a toolbar. The tabs there are used to
switch workspaces. So changing a tab may change the screen-layout, the
render-layer visible in the viewport, the interaction mode (object
mode, edit mode, etc), ...

See https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.8/UI/Workshop_Writeup#Global_Bars.

On 28 October 2017 at 00:52, Mike Pan <mike.c.pan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Blender isn't trying to be different for the sake of non-conformity. We have
> our own philosophy of doing UI (non-overlapping windows being a big one -
> that's why we don't like overlapping 'F6' menus), but that philosophy
> evolves as time goes on, and now we feel the need to add a global toolbar to
> Blender.
>
> Main issue that the top bar solves is to give the application a truly global
> place to show UI widgets. Currently all the important bits are crammed into
> the 'Info' window, which is just awkward and doesn't communicate the
> hierarchy of the data being displayed, especially after we implement
> workspace tabs.  There are additionally issues such as where the operator's
> settings are shown on a different area than the one you invoked it in, these
> can all be easily solved with a global bar.
>
> In my personal opinion, UI is about conforming to the learned behaviour of a
> user. We cannot afford to design a UI and expect to rewire the user's
> thinking. Having a global toolbar with tabs is a very powerful tool because
> the user already knows what they do - they've seen it in every app they
> encountered (web browser, office app, 3d apps), and this allows them to
> understand Blender so much faster.
>
> For Blender 101, this bar will also be a very important space for us.
>
> -M
>
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 at 16:29 Two Tone <chris.s.waters at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I gave the proposal, write-up, etc a quick once over, but I never once saw
>> an explanation as to *why*. What problem does this solve that is not
>> solvable with the current setup? What benefits are there to it compared to
>> what we have now? What about the cons?  If these can't be answered, people
>> are just going to look at this as a change for changes sake.
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2017 5:18 AM, "Paweł Łyczkowski" <pawellyczkowski at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> The design and development is all public and open to the community. In
>> hierarchical order:
>> Initial proposal:
>> https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI/Top_Bar_Reshuffle
>> Writeup after the 2.8 design sprint (Screens, Editors and Areas section):
>> https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.8/UI/Workshop_Writeup
>> Design task: https://developer.blender.org/T50845
>> Initial Patch: https://developer.blender.org/D2758
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 4:40 AM Pierre Schiller
>> <activemotionpictures at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 if this gets answered. Looks like dev team is concentrated on BCon
>>> these days. I just had your exact thoughts for a week, after carefully
>>> searching on this thread to find out more about the tabbed spaces.
>>> Conclusion: Blender 101 seems to have a little bit of light on this.
>>>
>>> I´ve been asking for draggable/floating windows that stay put until I
>>> close them; to finally get rid of all the extra redundant panels all over
>>> the interface. But this is exactly what they want: something that DOES NOT
>>> look like anything out there, even thought everything out there is pretty
>>> much "standarize" at this age. Innovative designs comes at a price of
>>> re-learning the software which is another thing Blen devs don´t want. So
>>> basically we´re tied up to some extents.
>>> I think the best-ever solution is like Softimage had years ago. Drop down
>>> menu, populated an entire tab. That way it would always show a MODULE, and
>>> it was populated by options ONLY from that module. +1 if this gets answered
>>> so I can post an idea inhere.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Jon Landers <pvtdsimmons at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi, there!
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if it would be possible to get a more detailed
>>>> description and explanation of the tob-bar concept, before it is sent off to
>>>> the "workshop" to be put into development?
>>>>
>>>> Currently, the only public info I could find regarding the top-bar is a
>>>> couple old mockup images (well, one was) and a small paragraph basically
>>>> saying it will kinda-sorta have rows and will contain a bunch of previously
>>>> scattered tools/functions and will universally exist accross all Blender
>>>> windows.
>>>>
>>>> While this gets the general gist accross, it doesn't seem to be enough
>>>> to let people like myself know whether or not that this is a design that
>>>> we'd feel comfortable with. For example, I know there are many who rejected
>>>> Andrew Price's "tabs" concept, because it would have effectively turned
>>>> Blender into a Maya clone and felt like a creative step backwards (even
>>>> though it was a step forward for "usability").
>>>>
>>>> In my gut, I have the feeling that what is being presented about the
>>>> tob-bar concept feels like a "functional" step forward, but a creative step
>>>> backwards; it makes it (Blender) feel like a standardized piece of industry
>>>> software (i.e. conforming), rather than a unique and creative paradigm
>>>> (innovating). But, honestly, I have no idea if this is the case or not for
>>>> the real design, because so little information about it has been presented
>>>> to the public.
>>>>
>>>> So, I'm hoping some of you can help to clarify exactly what your
>>>> thoughts are (maybe after this next meeting), so that more users in the
>>>> community can see if their fears (or their hopes) are being confirmed or
>>>> not, and to be able to pitch in and really help you guys (the UI design
>>>> team) to land on the best option for both Blender and it's current (and
>>>> future) community.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the long email! But, I felt I needed to say this now, as it
>>>> seems, from the latest updates, that time is running short on getting
>>>> community/user input on the designs before they're committed and developed
>>>> and implemented.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you all for your hard work and for putting up with "passionate"
>>>> users, like me. ;)
>>>>
>>>> -Jon Landers
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Since everyone's doing it, nowadays, I'll join in: Blender user
>>>> since 2008. ;P
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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