[Bf-interface] Workflow workshop, agenda topics and preparations
Paweł Łyczkowski
pawellyczkowski at gmail.com
Fri Nov 18 14:20:28 CET 2016
My take on agenda could look like:
1st day: Since UI in big part visual, and during discussions it's difficult
to show how ideas work (one has to describe), I would make the first day
talks with access to the projector. Topic of talks would be directions one
wants to push. There's 9 participants, so there should be enough time for
1h per participants - 45 min talk, 15 min questions/clarification/quick
opinions. That is - if everyone participating requests a talk (by mail,
during next week).
That would be a warmup day, with time between it and the 2nd day to digest
the ideas.
2nd day: Discussion day. Since UI talk can go off the rails very quickly
the discussion should go topic by topic, from a predefined list. So,
something like Bastien proposed. That's my rough take:
- Paradigms and general direction
- Blender 101
- Discoverability and help (tuts/tooltips/documentation)
- Screen layout and general GUI
- Layer Manager [2] and Outliner
- Modifier list [6]
- Brecht Bar [3]
- Screen Layouts, editing modes and tabs (including Topbar Tabs [5])
- Sidebars (customizing sidebars)
- General customization (hiding parts of GUI?)
- Display Settings - UI vs new viewport
- Workflow
- Data handling (fake user and data loss, asset management)
- Multi-mesh editing/UV mapping
- Setting properties of multiple objects
- Container objects [4]
- UDIM
- Texture Painting (layers?)
- Snapping and Proportional Editing
- How operators work, how tools work [1]
- Interaction
- Keymap, especialy keymap core (mouse buttons, navigation, selection)
- Keymap editor and it's issues
- Widgets
- Pies
- Sticky Keys
- Add-ons
- Code related discussion
And, most important:
- Priority (It's probably inevitable that there will be more ideas than
2.8 can handle. We should decide on a couple of items that are top priority
then)
3rd day: Decisions announced by module owners and working on concrete
solutions (or at least drafts). Here breaking into groups would be good I
suppose, with at least one dev (that can mock up prototypes in realtime
maybe?) per group.
Let me know what you guys think.
Cheers,
Paweł Łyczkowski
Additional reading:
[1] - https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI/Tools_Workflow
and https://developer.blender.org/T37554 - Tools Workflow by William
Reynish,
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ScPMbHv8WRCU2znB7IU2l-W9hH-NLs5weQKLkjqmgpA/edit#heading=h.xira9p9pbv78
- Adding Tool Mode to Operators by me
[2] - https://developer.blender.org/T38384 - Layer Manager proposal by me.
https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Julianeisel/GSoC-2016/UI_Design -
Julian's Layer Manager doc
[3] -
https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI/Top_Bar_Reshuffle
Brecht Bar by Brecht
[4] -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ScPMbHv8WRCU2znB7IU2l-W9hH-NLs5weQKLkjqmgpA/edit#heading=h.k20w9k3djv7c
- A Container type object by me.
[5] - https://developer.blender.org/T39835 Topbar Tabs by Julian
[6] - https://developer.blender.org/T38178 Modifier List
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:58 AM Bastien Montagne <montagne29 at wanadoo.fr>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Disclaimer: I’m starting fresh from initial mail again, since I’ve seen
> mails going already in way to much details, imho (Sebastian… ;) ). My
> point being: topic is way to broad and complex to be discussed in a
> single thread, would make it impossible to follow. So I propose to keep
> this thread only for the topics definition, and planning/agenda (in
> other words, the schedule of the workshop). For further detailed
> discussion of a topic or another (like, keymap, various types of
> customizations, 101, etc.), please start new (or use existing) threads.
>
> So, here is first draft of how I’d see things for the weekend:
>
> - Day I & II: Tackle each topic, from both sides:
> -- "Usability" side: Reconfirm existing UI/UX paradigms, check if
> we need to make some of them evolve, and define new needed ones.
> -- "Technical" side: Based on designs laid out by usability
> discussions, check what needs to be changed/extended/added to our UI/WM
> code (not thinking about tiny implementation details here of course).
> - Day III: Would keep it 'empty', can think of several ways to use it:
> -- Potentially extra time to finish discussion on some topics if we
> ran out of time in first two days.
> -- Handle unforeseen topics, questions etc. that may have arose
> during workshop.
> -- Maybe spread in smaller groups to refine work on some specific
> topics.
> -- Write/review first draft of final reports (though most of this
> work should be done in days after workshop, of course)?
> -- ...
>
> Some more organizational notes/questions (we do not want to be too much
> formal, but think agreeing on that could be useful and save time):
>
> - Do we want to work in a single big group, or several smaller
> groups? (personally, I would say one single group for first two days,
> imho it’s important that everyone has minimal knowledge of all topics'
> discussion, even if not directly interested to actually work on it. Then
> more freedom for the last day… ;) )
> -- If we go for several smaller groups, we could agree on the "at
> least one artist and one dev in each group" rule?
> - Do we accept talk? If yes, how long should they be at most?
> (personally, would keep them short, maybe as introduction of some
> topics, think we mostly need lots of discussion to agree on designs)
> - ...
>
> And now, the topics (I put them in a hierarchy tree, that’s obviously
> somewhat subjective, also probably have forgotten many points… and it
> does not mean branches are not related to each other!):
>
> - UI/UX
> -- Do we need new UI widgets? Extend/Rework some existing ones?
> (also thinking about proposed talk from Paweł, here)
> -- Do we need to extend or modify some interactions with operators
> (modal ones? heavy computations ones?)?
> -- Review recent new UI features (custom manipulators and pies
> mainly), how to use them in “default” Blender and not only as optional
> new things?
> -- ...
> - Customization
> -- Do we agree on the need to have a place in UI where artists can
> dump random settings and operators?
> --- If yes, how to do it (position? with tabs? with panels?
> floating or not? etc.)?
> -- Make macro operators part of customization possibilities?
> -- ...
> - Workflows
> -- What is part of/defines a workflow?
> --- keymaps?
> --- UI items (panels, menus, ...) - i.e., exposed/visible tools
> and data/settings?
> --- Custom manipulators?
> --- Screen layout?
> --- Visualization settings (like different draw modes in viewport…)?
> -- Do we replace (mostly viewport) modes (edit, sculpt, paint etc.)
> by workflows?
> -- Do we reuse/extend existing workspaces (screens) feature as
> workflows, or do we keep them separated? Or do we keep workflows inside
> single space area?
> -- ...
> - Blender 101
> -- I see it as a specific workflow, roughly, should we use it as a
> kind of guinea pig of workflow project?
> -- ...
> - Code-related questions
> -- Is custom spaces part of/needed for this project (custom spaces
> would be definable from py, similar to how panels or UIList work
> currently)?
> -- Do we need to rework the notifications system?
> -- ...
>
> Again, this is own first draft (based on previous mails and own
> knowledge), most likely forgot or overseen many things… You are more
> than welcome to add, move, remove, comment, suggest, whatever (even to
> say this is complete piece of trash ;) )… But please, let’s keep this
> thread onto agreeing on organization/agenda/topics points, and *not*
> about detailed topics' content discussion/proposal/etc., really think we
> should keep this into separated threads (like the one already started by
> Mike regarding Blender 101).
>
> Also, we may end with too much for three days, we can always trim down
> later and focus on biggest/most important topics first, leaving smaller
> ones for online discussion, if needed.
>
> Cheers,
> Bastien
>
> Le 06/11/2016 à 18:02, Ton Roosendaal a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The workshop will be here in Blender Institute, 25-27 November.
> > Confirmed participants are:
> >
> > - Jonathan Williamson
> > - Pablo Vazquez
> > - Julian Eisel
> > - Paweł Łyczkowski
> > - Daniel Lara
> > - Sebastian Koenig
> > - Bastien Montagne
> > - Brecht van Lommel
> > - Mike Pan
> >
> > I'm very happy to confirm that we'll get additional development support
> from Aleph Objects (Lulzbot 3D printer) to hire people for coding and
> designing work. Work would be on '2.8 workflow' in general, but result
> should lead to a release-compatible Blender version that's configured to be
> suitable for kids or occasional users to make 3d prints. That's the "101
> project" Mike Pan will be working on.
> >
> > In the coming weeks we should check on the planning for the workshop
> days, the agenda, and do a lot of preparations. Hopefully we can discuss
> and review existing proposals as much as possible.
> >
> > Let's throw random ideas in this week, then I come with a more
> structured proposal by end of week.
> > OK?
> >
> > Laters,
> >
> > -Ton-
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Ton Roosendaal - ton at blender.org - www.blender.org
> > Chairman Blender Foundation, Director Blender Institute
> > Entrepotdok 57A, 1018 AD, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-interface mailing list
> > Bf-interface at blender.org
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>
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