[Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support

mail at smokythaklown.com mail at smokythaklown.com
Thu Sep 18 12:34:00 CEST 2014 

  Sometimes long winded disscussions can take a day, and save 5 years
of someones development. Be open ton, like blender =)

On 17-09-2014,
Ton Roosendaal wrote: 

> Hi all,
> 
> The goal of this list is to help
developers to do their work.
> It is not get into long winded
discussions to sharpen your opinions.
> 
> Stay on topic please.
> 
>
-Ton-
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
Ton Roosendaal - ton at blender.org [16] - www.blender.org [17]Chairman
Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> Entrepotdok 57A -
1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands
> 
> On 17 Sep, 2014, at 18:51, Sam
Brubaker wrote:
> 
>> @Jacob, I'm all in favor continued BGE
development, and I also have a stake in the BGE more than any other
engine, but that's another, longer discussion. Maintaining
interoperability between Blender and other game engines should be a
priority in the short term, seeing as many artists and game studios are
finding it useful as an asset creation tool, and we want them to keep
finding it useful. As long as there is energy behind this particular
task, I support setting aside the BGE for now if we have to (as long as
we still keep it warm). @JCS, Your idea sounds sneaky. I like it. It
would be so cool to "lock" everyone in to an open standard. For me,
choosing an interchange format is like choosing whether to be shot in
the hand or the foot, so I see plenty of room for improvement on this
front. On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Takanu wrote: BGE is cool for
what it is, but even in spite of the licensing issues, firstly its nice
to have the flexibility to use different engines, as people have
different working styles and preferences. CG artists also have their
preferences, and can regularly use multiple programs in their own
workflow, so asking Blender game developers and artists to focus on one
engine seems unfair. Plus, it would mean losing support from those who
enjoy using Blender as a tool to develop game art, and I'm sure there's
quite a few small to medium sized development teams that rely on it due
to its unique position in the market and pretty sweet modelling tools.
Secondly however, BGE is lacking in many features the major 3 engines
support, including console and tablet platform support. I'm sure some
programmers with the expertise and drive could make porting options and
other features available in the future, but a good chunk of game
designers and studios just want to focus on design as much as possible
when choosing a game engine over an in-house solution. Avoiding the big
business waffle some peeps like to use when discussing Blender as much
as possible, BGE just isn't an attractive offer like Blender is as a
modelling and CG tool, as the game development market is very different
from the CG one - there are many high quality, easily accessible and
cheap options for game engines and development software, and most of
them are better, if not to a significant degree, to BGE. I still think
BGE is an awesome idea, but as it stands at the moment it's not a viable
option 😜 Sent from Windows Mail From: Jacob Merrill Sent: ‎Wednesday‎,
‎17‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎16‎:‎57 To: bf-gamedev at blender.org [7] Why not
work on the bge? with the exception of screen space normals, and
efficient draw call batching, I don't see any fatal flaws with it, What
is stopping it from being great? it's not GPL, as far as I can tell, as
most game developers are not writing anything that has not been done
before, and if they are, it's not like someone can't copy the idea
without access to the code..... here is my own work in the engine,
(almost alone at this point) this is a walking ragdoll, that supports
both ik animation, and physical scene interaction, when bullet 3 hits
the main stage as people upgrade video cards, you should in theory be
able to run 100's of walking ragdolls. why not a open project? (I am
biased) but my own project looks pretty good :D I have worked for a year
on this for free.....:P On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Toni Alatalo
wrote: could Assimp help here? it has an internal format, and can read &
write many formats to / from it. i don't know the format / internal
structure but have understood that it's simple and straightforward and
suitable for games. afaik they have a json format now but are interested
in a binary format as well. i've used the json format succesfully with
three.js in a test (converted from fbx to assimp2json) regarding
Collada, glTF may address some of the problems by being a more
restricted spec and by having an efficient binary format for the geom
arrays (and json for other stuff, no xml). it might be even nice to just
write glTF directly from Blender if the current solution of going via
collada2gltf is problematic. at least those Khronos standards have open
specs.. 2cently yours, ~Toni On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Sam
Brubaker wrote: 
>> 
>>> @JCS, I really like your ideas here, but I
still wonder if a "15th Standard" might be more strategically sound,
even if it's totally insane. My biggest concern about spending so many
resources on FBX is that B-devs would be working on something that does
not belong to Blender or any equivalent NFP organization. It belongs to
Autodesk. Autodesk is free to break its own format however it likes and
nullify all the work we do catching up, which is kind of scary. All FBX
development on our end indirectly helps a company that is not helping us
at all. Of course, our goal should be utility for users, not
vindictiveness; improving FBX support may be our best move in the short
term. But what about the long term? On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:38 AM,
Jens Christian Restemeier wrote: 
>>> 
>>>> Another thought: What about
porting Blender's FBX code into a clean C++ library, without
dependencies on Blender or the official SDK? Blender could then use it
through some Python bindings. Basically just a loader/writer, and a high
level interface to go through the scenegraph or to build a scene graph.
With an MIT or BSD style license to encourage people to use it over the
official SDK. That we we have guaranteed interoperability with anyone
using the library, and improvements benefit both Blender and
applications using it. And it would open a way to sneak in a better
format at a later point. You could define a clean legacy-free format,
and any application that uses the API just needs a recompile to use it.
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