[Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support

Tue Sep 9 20:33:20 CEST 2014

What about something similar to how the Octane team avoided the GPL 
limits? They used an external server program that piped all the render 
data between Octane and Blender which avoided mixing the code.

On 09/09/2014 05:48 AM, bf-gamedev-request at blender.org wrote:
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>     1. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support (Bastien Montagne)
>     2. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
>        (mail at smokythaklown.com)
>     3. Re: Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support (Crs Mrn)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:07:45 +0200
> From: Bastien Montagne <montagne29 at wanadoo.fr>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
> To: bf-gamedev at blender.org
> Message-ID: <540ED171.5020503 at wanadoo.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> And thanks for the link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of
> the work from guys at http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ . Aside from the fact
> that they add another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the
> real issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK!
>
> If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us.
> But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use
> (distribute) it with Blender.
>
> Cheers,
> Bastien
>
> Le 09/09/2014 11:47, mail at smokythaklown.com a ?crit :
>> http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/
>>
>>
>> Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might
>> already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help.
>>
>> On 08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> So, as everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to
>>> try to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount
>>> of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to summarize,
>>> roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic
>>> animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature
>>> handling is kind of nightmare).
>>>
>>> Now, what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib),
>>> **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any
>>> dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I
>>> can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good code',
>>> 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code', 'non-crashing
>>> code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender release and build,
>>> so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily test it, without
>>> waisting time in mails pingpong and such.
>>>
>>> Once an issue is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think
>>> to a good and nice way to implement it in good one.
>>>
>>> I would start to put Jens? work in this experimental version, and see
>>> whether it enhances armature handling for artists.
>>>
>>> In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX reports I got in
>>> past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX test cases I need
>>> to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d ask artists having
>>> 'ref FBX applications' to generate such files.
>>>
>>> Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or something to
>>> add (and yes, I know experimental addon is dirty).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bastien
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bf-gamedev mailing list
>>> Bf-gamedev at blender.org  <mailto:Bf-gamedev at blender.org>
>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-gamedev mailing list
>> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:14:27 +0000
> From: mail at smokythaklown.com
> Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
> To: <bf-gamedev at blender.org>
> Message-ID: <b503f6a15151533e9a0f4ed98c822aae at smokythaklown.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>    
>
> My personal honest opinion.. about what your actually doing is
> devoting time for people to use autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather then
> blender/BGE/makehuman. I understand the goal, and maybe a year ago i
> would have even spent money for you to develop in this area.. but in the
> long run imagine what could have been done for blender itself with the
> massive amount of time spent . My theory is we make snakes work, snakes
> dont make us work.
>
> -dont get me wrong, alot of blender community is
> indeed grateful to the fbx efforts especially for jobs that clients
> request specific formats and applications, but overall more harm is
> being done to blender itself. Just my opinion, hope it alters reality in
> a positive way small or big. Good luck! *dont kill yourself over fbx
>
>
> On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> And thanks for the
> link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of the work from guys
> at http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ [6] . Aside from the fact that they add
> another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real issue with
> their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK!
>> If we could
> use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us. But FBX SDK
> is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use (distribute) it
> with Blender.
>> Cheers,
>> Bastien
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 11:47,
> mail at smokythaklown.com [7] a ?crit :
> http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/
> [3]
>>> Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You
> might already be aware of his efforts, just trying to help.
>>> On
> 08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> So, as
> everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to
>>>> try
> to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount
>
>>>> of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to
> summarize,
>>>> roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite
> good, basic
>>>> animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are
> buggy, and armature
>>>> handling is kind of nightmare).
>>>>
>>>> Now,
> what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib),
> **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any
> dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I
>
>>>> can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good
> code',
>>>> 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code',
> 'non-crashing
>>>> code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender
> release and build,
>>>> so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can
> easily test it, without
>>>> waisting time in mails pingpong and
> such.
>>>> Once an issue is clearly solved in bad experimental
> addon, we can think
>>>> to a good and nice way to implement it in good
> one.
>>>> I would start to put Jens' work in this experimental
> version, and see
>>>> whether it enhances armature handling for
> artists.
>>>> In the mean time, I'll try to go over all unfixed FBX
> reports I got in
>>>> past months, and establish a list of basic, simple
> FBX test cases I need
>>>> to try to understand those issues better.
> Then, I'd ask artists having
>>>> 'ref FBX applications' to generate
> such files.
>>>> Please let me know if you see something wrong in
> here, or something to
>>>> add (and yes, I know experimental addon is
> dirty).
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Bastien
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bf-gamedev mailing
> list
>>>> Bf-gamedev at blender.org [1]
>>>>
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev [2]
>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>> Bf-gamedev mailing
> list
>>> Bf-gamedev at blender.org [4]
>>>
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev [5]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> [2]
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> [3]
> http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/
> [4]
> mailto:Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> [5]
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> [6]
> http://blenderfbx.render.jp/
> [7] mailto:mail at smokythaklown.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:48:41 +0300
> From: Crs Mrn <mahri726 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-gamedev] Proposal to (try to) get better FBX support
> To: bf-gamedev at blender.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<CABPSr7_TcABk3v9FF6qXMzxqJUbQXsOtA1UuQ4dPdkwqM82qew at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I think there might be ways to use FBX SDK in a way that could not
> interfere with GPL.
>
>     The license says that it cannot be bundled with Blender. I guess that
> this could be solved by using a custom repository plugin. You open the
> plugin inside Blender, and it displays you a list of things you could
> download. On this list, there could be the FBX plugin made using FBX SDK.
> In order to shield the SDK source from GPL, a intermediary piece of code
> might be needed.
>
>        When you firstly start Blender, that download plugin downloads the
> FBX plugin automaticly, for all users.
>       I think there could be ways to dodge GPL in order to use the official
> FBX SDK.
> ?n data de 09.09.2014 15:14, <mail at smokythaklown.com> a scris:
>
>>   My personal honest opinion..  about what your actually doing is devoting
>> time for people to use autodesk/unity3d/daz&poser rather then
>> blender/BGE/makehuman. I understand the goal, and maybe a year ago i would
>> have even spent money for you to develop in this area.. but in the long run
>> imagine what could have been done for blender itself with the massive
>> amount of time spent . My theory is we make snakes work, snakes dont make
>> us work.
>>
>> -dont get me wrong, alot of blender community is indeed grateful to the
>> fbx efforts especially for jobs that clients request specific formats and
>> applications, but overall more harm is being done to blender itself. Just
>> my opinion, hope it alters reality in a positive way small or big. Good
>> luck! *dont kill yourself over fbx
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> And thanks for the link, unfortunately this is just a tweaked version of
>> the work from guys at http://blenderfbx.render.jp/ . Aside from the fact
>> that they add another intermediate step (their own .bos format), the real
>> issue with their tool is that it uses umconv, which uses? FBX SDK!
>>
>> If we could use FBX SDK, things would be hundreds times simpler for us.
>> But FBX SDK is everything but opensource, which means we cannot use
>> (distribute) it with Blender.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bastien
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 11:47, mail at smokythaklown.com a ?crit :
>>
>>
>> http://darisl.wordpress.com/about/importing-fbx-files-into-blender-with-full-armaturesweights/
>>
>>
>> Check with this cat working on the fbx armature import. You might already
>> be aware of his efforts, just trying to help.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08-09-2014, Bastien Montagne wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> So, as everyone probably already knows, we are struggling like Hell to
>> try to support FBX format in Blender. We already spent a **huge** amount
>> of energy on this, for rather mitigated results so far (to summarize,
>> roughly static object/mesh/material export works quite good, basic
>> animation too. Camera/lamp orientation handling are buggy, and armature
>> handling is kind of nightmare).
>>
>> Now, what I propose is to add a second fbx io addon (as contrib),
>> **clearly flagged as experimental**, where we can put any
>> dirty/bad-tested/etc. development. The point is, I want a place where I
>> can do whatever I want, without considering things like 'good code',
>> 'maintainable code', 'readable code', 'stable code', 'non-crashing
>> code', etc. - and yet get it in all and every Blender release and build,
>> so that anyone involved in FBX pipeline can easily test it, without
>> waisting time in mails pingpong and such.
>>
>> Once an issue is clearly solved in bad experimental addon, we can think
>> to a good and nice way to implement it in good one.
>>
>> I would start to put Jens? work in this experimental version, and see
>> whether it enhances armature handling for artists.
>>
>> In the mean time, I?ll try to go over all unfixed FBX reports I got in
>> past months, and establish a list of basic, simple FBX test cases I need
>> to try to understand those issues better. Then, I?d ask artists having
>> 'ref FBX applications' to generate such files.
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something wrong in here, or something to
>> add (and yes, I know experimental addon is dirty).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bastien
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-gamedev mailing listBf-gamedev at blender.orghttp://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-gamedev mailing listBf-gamedev at blender.orghttp://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-gamedev mailing list
>> Bf-gamedev at blender.org
>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
>>
>>
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-- 
Jeffrey "Italic_" Hoover