[Bf-gamedev] BGE to visual Presentation and Blender for easier usage for other gamengines.

Fri Sep 27 03:53:56 CEST 2013

Honestly I'd rather work on generic tools that would let flow maps be
implemented as an add on.  There comes a point where you don't need 18
different paths to paint vectors into images.  Since we aren't talking
about 17+1 yet, I'd much rather consider how such a thing could be done
generically.  This isn't like other parts of blender where you have to
break something in order to refactor it.  I think it is a case where it can
be planned from the ground up the right way.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Timur Ariman <timur_ariman at yahoo.de> wrote:

> @Jason Wilkins
>
> another feature which might be important for game artists is being able to
> paint Flow Maps
> and being able to see the effects they make.
> which could be realised inside the paint mode as an additional Layer?
>
>
> http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2010/siggraph2010_vlachos_waterflow.pdf
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYvOfRkPcaI
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1vFVGAlwk
>
> there seems to be also a standalone program jut for generating a
> rudimentary Flow Map.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJBn8ykpMwQ
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *Von:* Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com>
> *An:* bf-gamedev at blender.org
> *Gesendet:* 2:26 Freitag, 27.September 2013
> *Betreff:* Re: [Bf-gamedev] BGE to visual Presentation and Blender for
> easier usage for other gamengines.
>
> Sorry to spam everyone, but there was already some work done on normals
> editing...thought it might be useful to let people know: It seems like the
> left hand does not know what the right hand is doing in Blender development
> sometimes.  Perhaps someone could ask Felix for his code.
>
>
> http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?284736-Normals-Editing-in-Blender
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Jason Wilkins <jason.a.wilkins at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Thanks Matt.  I have quite enough to do regarding Blender, but I'll take a
> good look at what you've linked me.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> As a followup and clarification, here is an example of how editing vertex
> normals works in Maya:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APV11HL6_es
>
> There was a script awhile back that could transfer normals like you see in
> the Maya video, but there was no way to edit individual normals, and any
> transfer needed to be done in object mode:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrxWAo5isB0
>
> Basically, any transfer done is destroyed the minute edit mode is entered.
>
> I think a good way to implement this in Blender is to essentially copy how
> Maya does it:
>
>
> http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/maya2014/en_us/index.html?url=files/Editing_polygons_Edit_the_vertex_normals_to_affect_polygon_shading.htm,topicNumber=d30e163432
>
> To implement this in Blender first you would need to stop the automatic
> recalculation of vetex normals, and then allow them to be edited.
>
> Basically, a user would be able to turn vertex normals on in the display
> tab of the properties panel (n key) select a vertex, and use the rotation
> tool to edit the vertex normal direction.
>
> I assume stopping their recalculation is a pretty big task (or it could be
> trivial) but that would be the first step, as there is no point in being
> able to edit vertex normals if there is no way to keep them.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuS_F0ZKX-zTdGxKOEMtRmI2Tno4UUlPZzVfNXB6RHc#gid=0
>
> is pretty much the canonical document for what is missing. For a modern
> workflow the big ones are:
>
> Editable vertex normals with proper export support for smoothing groups.
>  This is partially implemented in the new FBX/.obj exporters, however, as
> edit mode recalculates vertex normals every time you enter it, it's a huge
> problem.
>
> http://wiki.polycount.net/VertexNormal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=TreeMakerScript_plus_NormalThiefScript.gif is
> an example of why we need editable vertex normals.  For low poly objects it
> is extremely important to be able to control shading, and a primary way to
> do this is through editing normals and setting hard/soft edges.  Not to
> mention that without proper normals your bakes will not work right.
>
> Cage baking and baking with AA (normally we get around this with
> X-normal).  Proper support for cage baking would mean that we wouldn't need
> to use a third party app to get proper bakes that work in game engines.
>
> I think these are the two big ones.  Support for edited normals is
> important for getting data out of Blender that game engines understand.
> Right now there are some work arounds but it is really difficult to do
> certain things, such as foliage, without edited vertex normals.  Cage
> baking is what would be needed to make Blender a one stop app for creating
> game assets.  Right now we're almost required to use Xnormal and Handplane
> to get our meshes looking right in engines like UDK.
>
> I'm sure other artists (Andy Davies, feel free to chime in here) would
> need other features, but those two seem to be the common consensus as far
> as basic feature completeness.
>
> I would add the ability to bake global illumination (i.e. Cycles baking)
>  and the ability to bake displacement maps as two other features that are
> notably absent in blender.  However, they aren't show stoppers like the
> vertex normal and baking support are.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Jason Wilkins <jason.a.wilkins at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> To begin to address missing features, is there a list of things that are
> missing that somebody could look at and start getting ideas of where to
> begin?  If not one could start by creating concrete list of things Blender
> can't do (or can't do easily) that missing and what one thinks would be
> needed to make Blender "feature complete".
>
> My area is computer graphics and programming language research, so I need
> to be pointed in the right direction ;-)
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> I honestly wouldn't worry about another language at the moment...I'm not
> sure what it would really add for game art creation.  I think a lot of tech
> artists are proficient in Python as it is used in Maya and Max scripting.
>  The big issue for most of us who use Blender for game projects on 3rd
> party engines is the missing features. Right now Blender is feature
> incomplete for game art creation when stacked up against Maya or 3ds Max.
> In my opinion this is the first thing that this list and effort should
> address.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Jason Wilkins <jason.a.wilkins at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> I'll admit adding Lua or other language support to Blender is
> hypothetical, but I was thinking this list would be a good place gauge
> interest.  It actually made me much more interested in adding Mono support
> since I think having a strongly typed language would be much more
> appreciated than adding yet another scripting language.
>
> Of course there will be a lot of "bike shedding" when the topic of
> programming languages is raised, but I have a nice threaded mail reader so
> it doesn't matter if the number next to the thread is [2] or [40], it isn't
> "drowning out" anything.  I'll try to keep in mind that other people might
> get more annoyed by the size of these numbers than me ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Jacob Merrill <blueprintrandom1 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> Ok, thank you sir...
> On Sep 26, 2013 1:09 PM, "Brecht Van Lommel" <brechtvanlommel at pandora.be>
> wrote:
>
> If developers of the Blender game engine want to communicate with
> users over this list I don't have a problem with that. This is a new
> mailing list and we still have to see how it works out.
>
> But if we get long discussions about hypothetical projects that drown
> out the discussions on actual development work that is being done,
> then people who can provide good feedback will ignore the list or
> unsubscribe. And I think we are in danger of that happening, so I just
> want to remind people to try to avoid it.
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Jacob Merrill
> <blueprintrandom1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ok,
> >
> > Very professional,
> >
> > BF-GameDev-
> >
> > I guess I thought it was about game development,
> > Sorry....
> >
> > I guess I should maybe think about moving to another engine....
> >
> > what of the unpaid devs?
> > Kupoman -etc?
> >
> > is there a list that I should be posting to about game development?
> >
> > Android ports?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-gamedev mailing list
> > Bf-gamedev at blender.org
> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
> >
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