[Bf-gamedev] BGE to visual Presentation and Blender for easier usage for other gamengines.

Fri Sep 27 01:49:52 CEST 2013

Thanks Matt.  I have quite enough to do regarding Blender, but I'll take a
good look at what you've linked me.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a followup and clarification, here is an example of how editing vertex
> normals works in Maya:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APV11HL6_es
>
> There was a script awhile back that could transfer normals like you see in
> the Maya video, but there was no way to edit individual normals, and any
> transfer needed to be done in object mode:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrxWAo5isB0
>
> Basically, any transfer done is destroyed the minute edit mode is entered.
>
> I think a good way to implement this in Blender is to essentially copy how
> Maya does it:
>
>
> http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/maya2014/en_us/index.html?url=files/Editing_polygons_Edit_the_vertex_normals_to_affect_polygon_shading.htm,topicNumber=d30e163432
>
> To implement this in Blender first you would need to stop the automatic
> recalculation of vetex normals, and then allow them to be edited.
>
> Basically, a user would be able to turn vertex normals on in the display
> tab of the properties panel (n key) select a vertex, and use the rotation
> tool to edit the vertex normal direction.
>
> I assume stopping their recalculation is a pretty big task (or it could be
> trivial) but that would be the first step, as there is no point in being
> able to edit vertex normals if there is no way to keep them.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuS_F0ZKX-zTdGxKOEMtRmI2Tno4UUlPZzVfNXB6RHc#gid=0
>>
>> is pretty much the canonical document for what is missing. For a modern
>> workflow the big ones are:
>>
>> Editable vertex normals with proper export support for smoothing groups.
>>  This is partially implemented in the new FBX/.obj exporters, however, as
>> edit mode recalculates vertex normals every time you enter it, it's a huge
>> problem.
>>
>> http://wiki.polycount.net/VertexNormal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=TreeMakerScript_plus_NormalThiefScript.gif is
>> an example of why we need editable vertex normals.  For low poly objects it
>> is extremely important to be able to control shading, and a primary way to
>> do this is through editing normals and setting hard/soft edges.  Not to
>> mention that without proper normals your bakes will not work right.
>>
>> Cage baking and baking with AA (normally we get around this with
>> X-normal).  Proper support for cage baking would mean that we wouldn't need
>> to use a third party app to get proper bakes that work in game engines.
>>
>> I think these are the two big ones.  Support for edited normals is
>> important for getting data out of Blender that game engines understand.
>> Right now there are some work arounds but it is really difficult to do
>> certain things, such as foliage, without edited vertex normals.  Cage
>> baking is what would be needed to make Blender a one stop app for creating
>> game assets.  Right now we're almost required to use Xnormal and Handplane
>> to get our meshes looking right in engines like UDK.
>>
>> I'm sure other artists (Andy Davies, feel free to chime in here) would
>> need other features, but those two seem to be the common consensus as far
>> as basic feature completeness.
>>
>> I would add the ability to bake global illumination (i.e. Cycles baking)
>>  and the ability to bake displacement maps as two other features that are
>> notably absent in blender.  However, they aren't show stoppers like the
>> vertex normal and baking support are.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Jason Wilkins <jason.a.wilkins at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> To begin to address missing features, is there a list of things that are
>>> missing that somebody could look at and start getting ideas of where to
>>> begin?  If not one could start by creating concrete list of things Blender
>>> can't do (or can't do easily) that missing and what one thinks would be
>>> needed to make Blender "feature complete".
>>>
>>> My area is computer graphics and programming language research, so I
>>> need to be pointed in the right direction ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Matt Three <ragingelbows at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I honestly wouldn't worry about another language at the moment...I'm
>>>> not sure what it would really add for game art creation.  I think a lot of
>>>> tech artists are proficient in Python as it is used in Maya and Max
>>>> scripting.  The big issue for most of us who use Blender for game projects
>>>> on 3rd party engines is the missing features. Right now Blender is feature
>>>> incomplete for game art creation when stacked up against Maya or 3ds Max.
>>>> In my opinion this is the first thing that this list and effort should
>>>> address.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Jason Wilkins <
>>>> jason.a.wilkins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'll admit adding Lua or other language support to Blender is
>>>>> hypothetical, but I was thinking this list would be a good place gauge
>>>>> interest.  It actually made me much more interested in adding Mono support
>>>>> since I think having a strongly typed language would be much more
>>>>> appreciated than adding yet another scripting language.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there will be a lot of "bike shedding" when the topic of
>>>>> programming languages is raised, but I have a nice threaded mail reader so
>>>>> it doesn't matter if the number next to the thread is [2] or [40], it isn't
>>>>> "drowning out" anything.  I'll try to keep in mind that other people might
>>>>> get more annoyed by the size of these numbers than me ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Jacob Merrill <
>>>>> blueprintrandom1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, thank you sir...
>>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013 1:09 PM, "Brecht Van Lommel" <
>>>>>> brechtvanlommel at pandora.be> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If developers of the Blender game engine want to communicate with
>>>>>>> users over this list I don't have a problem with that. This is a new
>>>>>>> mailing list and we still have to see how it works out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if we get long discussions about hypothetical projects that drown
>>>>>>> out the discussions on actual development work that is being done,
>>>>>>> then people who can provide good feedback will ignore the list or
>>>>>>> unsubscribe. And I think we are in danger of that happening, so I
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> want to remind people to try to avoid it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Jacob Merrill
>>>>>>> <blueprintrandom1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Ok,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Very professional,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > BF-GameDev-
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I guess I thought it was about game development,
>>>>>>> > Sorry....
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I guess I should maybe think about moving to another engine....
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > what of the unpaid devs?
>>>>>>> > Kupoman -etc?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > is there a list that I should be posting to about game development?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Android ports?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Bf-gamedev mailing list
>>>>>>> > Bf-gamedev at blender.org
>>>>>>> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>
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