[Bf-funboard] Bf-funboard Digest, Vol 126, Issue 6

Wed May 11 22:06:57 CEST 2016

I like the idea of splash screen showing up after x seconds. That might be
a little more complicated to implement though,  is my only thought on that.
For me(i7 4770k 16gig ram 750ti ssd)  it doesn't take long if I've been
working on a project recently,  but if I've just updated or have been gone
for a while it take some time. How does everyone else feel about this?
On May 11, 2016 15:59, <bf-funboard-request at blender.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (Diego Gangl)
>    2. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (?????? ???????????)
>    3. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (Michael Knubben)
>    4. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (Jason van Gumster)
>    5. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (Harley Acheson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 09:09:25 -0300
> From: Diego Gangl <dnicolas at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> To: "Discuss Blender's functionality." <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CAEAjNq4DCRsBG6ma7-dN27tce111PwEAxrx9Q-7q_=
> YjTbLKug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi all,
>
> Blender loads pretty fast for me on factory settings, but once you
> start piling addons it takes longer and longer. As addons become
> larger, startup (registration) times will increase too.
>
> I don't know if there's much Blender devs can do to improve this,
> since it's third party code.
>
> Maybe it would be useful to have a splash screen that only shows up
> after X seconds of loading. It could be just the Blender logo and a
> text like "Loading addons..." so the user gets a hint.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> 2016-05-11 5:14 GMT-03:00 Matjaz Lamut <matjaz.lamut at gmail.com>:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am one of those with less capable machines :) my laptop is in its 6th
> > year (i3 380m, mobility radeon5650, 4gb ram, hdd, win 10). On first
> start,
> > it takes 3s for the console to appear and 9s for Blender to load
> > completely. On further starts it's 3s or less to load. For my use case,
> the
> > splash would show in a meaningful way for the first run of Blender for
> the
> > day.
> >
> > Also, as David Jeske says, with SSDs the problem is slowly going away on
> > its own.
> >
> > Then there is the still unanswered question of what benefit this brings
> to
> > the user. I understand it can be an annoying question, but User Interface
> > is all about the user and his/her needs. Any addition should satisfy a
> real
> > need, otherwise it's not needed. The question helps to explore and
> identify
> > those needs. For example, it was a good idea to ask for benchmarks, we
> went
> > from "Blender loads fast enough for me" to "Blender loads in this many
> > seconds".
> >
> > Matja?
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 2:54 AM, David Jeske <davidj at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 5:16 PM, gandalf3 <zzyxpaw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On my slightly-beefy linux machine it takes 9 seconds if I haven't
> >> > started blender in a while, and a little under 1.5 seconds otherwise.
> >> > (counting from launch to until blender is fully usable).
> >> >
> >>
> >> I can't speak for blender foundation, but to me 9-15 seconds on a HDD
> seems
> >> like a long enough time to justify either speeding up startup or making
> a
> >> clean loading splash, if someone wants to do the work. That said, the
> world
> >> is moving to SSD, so this problem is slowly but steadily disappearing on
> >> its own.
> >>
> >>
> >> > It's worth noting that on the first run in a while, there is usually a
> >> > long delay filled with disk activity before the splash screen of
> either
> >> > gimp or audacity even appears. I imagine this is similar to the 7.5
> >> > second delay blender sometimes experiences.
> >> >
> >> > This makes me wonder if the delay caused by slow IO operations is even
> >> > practically progress-bar-able. Chances are it'd end up being one of
> >> > those progress bars that doesn't move for 10 seconds then jumps to
> >> > complete all at once..
> >> >
> >>
> >> It takes some time for the OS to load the EXE, load the DLLs, and run
> their
> >> inits before any code is going to run. It would surprise me if this was
> >> 7.5s even on an HDD, but I suppose it depends on how much the DLLs do
> >> during their init. One way to get around this is with a separate
> >> lightweight tiny "splash launcher" which has no dependencies and just
> puts
> >> up a splash before launching the real app -- but IMO effort like this
> would
> >> be better spent making startup faster.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bf-funboard mailing list
> >> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> >> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-funboard mailing list
> > Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Diego Gangl - sinestesia.co
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 20:19:52 +0700
> From: ?????? ??????????? <akhilman at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> To: "Discuss Blender's functionality." <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> Message-ID: <1462972792.18521.8.camel at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Firefox starts slower then Blender, but FF has no splash screen.
> In my opinion splash screens bother to do something else while
> application fires up.
>
> On Wed, 2016-05-11 at 09:09 -0300, Diego Gangl wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Blender loads pretty fast for me on factory settings, but once you
> > start piling addons it takes longer and longer. As addons become
> > larger, startup (registration) times will increase too.
> >
> > I don't know if there's much Blender devs can do to improve this,
> > since it's third party code.
> >
> > Maybe it would be useful to have a splash screen that only shows up
> > after X seconds of loading. It could be just the Blender logo and a
> > text like "Loading addons..." so the user gets a hint.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> >
> > 2016-05-11 5:14 GMT-03:00 Matjaz Lamut <matjaz.lamut at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am one of those with less capable machines :) my laptop is in its
> > > 6th
> > > year (i3 380m, mobility radeon5650, 4gb ram, hdd, win 10). On first
> > > start,
> > > it takes 3s for the console to appear and 9s for Blender to load
> > > completely. On further starts it's 3s or less to load. For my use
> > > case, the
> > > splash would show in a meaningful way for the first run of Blender
> > > for the
> > > day.
> > >
> > > Also, as David Jeske says, with SSDs the problem is slowly going
> > > away on
> > > its own.
> > >
> > > Then there is the still unanswered question of what benefit this
> > > brings to
> > > the user. I understand it can be an annoying question, but User
> > > Interface
> > > is all about the user and his/her needs. Any addition should
> > > satisfy a real
> > > need, otherwise it's not needed. The question helps to explore and
> > > identify
> > > those needs. For example, it was a good idea to ask for benchmarks,
> > > we went
> > > from "Blender loads fast enough for me" to "Blender loads in this
> > > many
> > > seconds".
> > >
> > > Matja?
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 2:54 AM, David Jeske <davidj at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 5:16 PM, gandalf3 <zzyxpaw at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On my slightly-beefy linux machine it takes 9 seconds if I
> > > > > haven't
> > > > > started blender in a while, and a little under 1.5 seconds
> > > > > otherwise.
> > > > > (counting from launch to until blender is fully usable).
> > > > >
> > > > I can't speak for blender foundation, but to me 9-15 seconds on a
> > > > HDD seems
> > > > like a long enough time to justify either speeding up startup or
> > > > making a
> > > > clean loading splash, if someone wants to do the work. That said,
> > > > the world
> > > > is moving to SSD, so this problem is slowly but steadily
> > > > disappearing on
> > > > its own.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It's worth noting that on the first run in a while, there is
> > > > > usually a
> > > > > long delay filled with disk activity before the splash screen
> > > > > of either
> > > > > gimp or audacity even appears. I imagine this is similar to the
> > > > > 7.5
> > > > > second delay blender sometimes experiences.
> > > > >
> > > > > This makes me wonder if the delay caused by slow IO operations
> > > > > is even
> > > > > practically progress-bar-able. Chances are it'd end up being
> > > > > one of
> > > > > those progress bars that doesn't move for 10 seconds then jumps
> > > > > to
> > > > > complete all at once..
> > > > >
> > > > It takes some time for the OS to load the EXE, load the DLLs, and
> > > > run their
> > > > inits before any code is going to run. It would surprise me if
> > > > this was
> > > > 7.5s even on an HDD, but I suppose it depends on how much the
> > > > DLLs do
> > > > during their init. One way to get around this is with a separate
> > > > lightweight tiny "splash launcher" which has no dependencies and
> > > > just puts
> > > > up a splash before launching the real app -- but IMO effort like
> > > > this would
> > > > be better spent making startup faster.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bf-funboard mailing list
> > > > Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > > > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bf-funboard mailing list
> > > Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> >
> >
> --
> ===8@))-\-<
> http://akhil.ru
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 16:49:56 +0200
> From: Michael Knubben <michaelknubben at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> To: bf-funboard at blender.org
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALQLihkVcWRj++VsGbV0BT8UtOJiuwbbLAwoW98M5FOmOBNwmw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> This has come up before, and my response then was:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17715/BL_loadingscreen.gif
>
> Essentially, Blender loads really fast, so I've personally never seen the
> need.
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:00 PM, <bf-funboard-request at blender.org> wrote:
>
> > Send Bf-funboard mailing list submissions to
> >         bf-funboard at blender.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         bf-funboard-request at blender.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         bf-funboard-owner at blender.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Bf-funboard digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (David Jeske)
> >    2. Re: Loading Screen for Blender (Matjaz Lamut)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 17:54:25 -0700
> > From: David Jeske <davidj at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> > To: "Discuss Blender's functionality." <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CA+CP9O7LYKAG+e+48NmHEmaY-EahAD=G-WTAzHYWKP=9X=
> > z4Aw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 5:16 PM, gandalf3 <zzyxpaw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On my slightly-beefy linux machine it takes 9 seconds if I haven't
> > > started blender in a while, and a little under 1.5 seconds otherwise.
> > > (counting from launch to until blender is fully usable).
> > >
> >
> > I can't speak for blender foundation, but to me 9-15 seconds on a HDD
> seems
> > like a long enough time to justify either speeding up startup or making a
> > clean loading splash, if someone wants to do the work. That said, the
> world
> > is moving to SSD, so this problem is slowly but steadily disappearing on
> > its own.
> >
> >
> > > It's worth noting that on the first run in a while, there is usually a
> > > long delay filled with disk activity before the splash screen of either
> > > gimp or audacity even appears. I imagine this is similar to the 7.5
> > > second delay blender sometimes experiences.
> > >
> > > This makes me wonder if the delay caused by slow IO operations is even
> > > practically progress-bar-able. Chances are it'd end up being one of
> > > those progress bars that doesn't move for 10 seconds then jumps to
> > > complete all at once..
> > >
> >
> > It takes some time for the OS to load the EXE, load the DLLs, and run
> their
> > inits before any code is going to run. It would surprise me if this was
> > 7.5s even on an HDD, but I suppose it depends on how much the DLLs do
> > during their init. One way to get around this is with a separate
> > lightweight tiny "splash launcher" which has no dependencies and just
> puts
> > up a splash before launching the real app -- but IMO effort like this
> would
> > be better spent making startup faster.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 10:14:28 +0200
> > From: Matjaz Lamut <matjaz.lamut at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> > To: "Discuss Blender's functionality." <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAMqmiz+5FRfHS4fwqsxMNffXRKa-ZCfQ_OPHtn311CWtipjs7Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am one of those with less capable machines :) my laptop is in its 6th
> > year (i3 380m, mobility radeon5650, 4gb ram, hdd, win 10). On first
> start,
> > it takes 3s for the console to appear and 9s for Blender to load
> > completely. On further starts it's 3s or less to load. For my use case,
> the
> > splash would show in a meaningful way for the first run of Blender for
> the
> > day.
> >
> > Also, as David Jeske says, with SSDs the problem is slowly going away on
> > its own.
> >
> > Then there is the still unanswered question of what benefit this brings
> to
> > the user. I understand it can be an annoying question, but User Interface
> > is all about the user and his/her needs. Any addition should satisfy a
> real
> > need, otherwise it's not needed. The question helps to explore and
> identify
> > those needs. For example, it was a good idea to ask for benchmarks, we
> went
> > from "Blender loads fast enough for me" to "Blender loads in this many
> > seconds".
> >
> > Matja?
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 2:54 AM, David Jeske <davidj at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 5:16 PM, gandalf3 <zzyxpaw at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On my slightly-beefy linux machine it takes 9 seconds if I haven't
> > > > started blender in a while, and a little under 1.5 seconds otherwise.
> > > > (counting from launch to until blender is fully usable).
> > > >
> > >
> > > I can't speak for blender foundation, but to me 9-15 seconds on a HDD
> > seems
> > > like a long enough time to justify either speeding up startup or
> making a
> > > clean loading splash, if someone wants to do the work. That said, the
> > world
> > > is moving to SSD, so this problem is slowly but steadily disappearing
> on
> > > its own.
> > >
> > >
> > > > It's worth noting that on the first run in a while, there is usually
> a
> > > > long delay filled with disk activity before the splash screen of
> either
> > > > gimp or audacity even appears. I imagine this is similar to the 7.5
> > > > second delay blender sometimes experiences.
> > > >
> > > > This makes me wonder if the delay caused by slow IO operations is
> even
> > > > practically progress-bar-able. Chances are it'd end up being one of
> > > > those progress bars that doesn't move for 10 seconds then jumps to
> > > > complete all at once..
> > > >
> > >
> > > It takes some time for the OS to load the EXE, load the DLLs, and run
> > their
> > > inits before any code is going to run. It would surprise me if this was
> > > 7.5s even on an HDD, but I suppose it depends on how much the DLLs do
> > > during their init. One way to get around this is with a separate
> > > lightweight tiny "splash launcher" which has no dependencies and just
> > puts
> > > up a splash before launching the real app -- but IMO effort like this
> > would
> > > be better spent making startup faster.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bf-funboard mailing list
> > > Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-funboard mailing list
> > Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> >
> >
> > End of Bf-funboard Digest, Vol 126, Issue 5
> > *******************************************
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 11:54:26 -0400
> From: Jason van Gumster <fweeb at monsterjavaguns.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> To: bf-funboard at blender.org
> Message-ID: <20160511115426.23062e32 at monsterjavaguns.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Diego Gangl <dnicolas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Blender loads pretty fast for me on factory settings, but once you
> > start piling addons it takes longer and longer. As addons become
> > larger, startup (registration) times will increase too.
> >
> > I don't know if there's much Blender devs can do to improve this,
> > since it's third party code.
> >
> > Maybe it would be useful to have a splash screen that only shows up
> > after X seconds of loading. It could be just the Blender logo and a
> > text like "Loading addons..." so the user gets a hint.
> >
> > Cheers!
>
> The add-ons point is an important one to make. These launch-time benchmarks
> really need to be done (or at least baselined) with Blender's "factory
> defaults."
>
> There was discussion a while back about lazy loading of add-ons, but it's a
> non-trivial problem and I'm not sure anything of significance came of it.
>
> All that said, the Blender development team would be far more likely to put
> energy into shortening launch time than adding a loader pop-up of any sort.
>
>   -Jason
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 12:59:33 -0700
> From: Harley Acheson <harley.acheson at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Loading Screen for Blender
> To: "Discuss Blender's functionality." <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CAH-O14ROJRRYQUDjjBA6wnFhJ8Q_+K8csB4q=
> NtzvD_-RzitQw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> In my humble opinion, the time it takes a slow machine to load
> Blender isn't relevant.
>
> The only time you really need a "loading screen" is when the time
> for the application to load is so much longer than your *expectations*
> that you think it is hung. Or you mistakenly think it didn't actually
> launch
> so you launch it a second time.
>
> Blender starts quickly compared to most other applications, and very
> quickly compared to similar applications. Users of slow computers get
> used to programs taking longer to launch - it is all a relative thing.
>
> So really the only real test for whether a loading screen is necessary:
> Does anyone attempt to launch it but then worries that it might be broken
> because it takes too long?  If yes, then it might need something to
> indicate that startup is in progress and proceeding normally. If no, then
> it doesn't need it.
>
> Harley
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
>
> End of Bf-funboard Digest, Vol 126, Issue 6
> *******************************************
>