[Bf-funboard] Modernizing the Video Sequencer Editor UI

Paulo José Amaro pauloup at gmail.com
Fri Feb 21 09:22:34 CET 2014


David, thank you so much for the great clarification of the issue. The
messages from Ton are much better than what I could imagine, even with
some reservation.
One thing is not clear to me: Is there a GSoc project specifically to
improve the Sequencer?

Once again, thank you so much!


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:58 AM, David McSween <3pointedit at gmail.com> wrote:

> Paulo,
> Yes this makes me sad too. There are some good addons that help to
> re-create the in point / out point operation of a real video editor
>
> http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?264676-Sequencer-Addon-Trim-Videos-before-adding-them-to-the-Timeline-(In-and-Outpoints)&p=2201070#post2201070
> but there is no access to meta data or asset compilation (key word lists
> etc.), so you could re-use media or group media into collections.
>
> This is because Ton prefers to keep Blender as a function specific
> application. That is it should create or composite 3D animations only. here
> are his thoughts on the Sequencer...
>
> http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/soc-2013-dev/2013-July/000127.html
>
> " Requirements:
>
> - Above all: Sequencer is for real-time editing of shots. It is a
> Blender tool, well working with rest of Blender, for Blender artists
> to manage their work. We don't make a generic video editor."
>
> Remember this from Ton last year, it is a comprehensive look at what
> Blender should do...
> http://code.blender.org/index.php/2013/10/redefining-blender/
>
> "The official Blender Foundation goal is worded like this:
>
> *Provide individual artists and small teams with a complete, free and open
> source 3D creation pipeline.*
>
> In this simple sentence a couple of crucial focus points come together.
>
>    - Artists and teams:
>    We work for people who consider themselves artist - and who work on
>    creating 3D individually or in small teams together. The definition for
>    "artist" can be taken quite wide - to include engineers, product
> designers,
>    architects or scientists. But each of them can be considered to have a
>    serious interest in working with 3D software to create something
> related to
>    that interest.
>    "Blender is for artists" also means that's it not a programming API or
>    scripting environment, these are secondary to this goal.
>    - Complete 3D creation:
>    Blender should work for making finished products, without requirement to
>    purchase or run other programs. Its output should satisfy the users
>    sufficiently to share their work in public or market it as part of a
> living.
>    - Pipeline:
>    We are aware of how CG production works (for animation, film, vfx,
>    games) and we want Blender to work sufficiently in each and every
> aspect of
>    such creation pipelines. This to to make complex creations possible and
> to
>    enable people working together.
>    - Free and open source:
>    And not only should Blender be a complete production system, we even
>    want this to be free and open source!
>
> "
> and here
> http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2013-January/038991.html
>
> "By design (and focus for work) the Sequencer is meant for Blender
> projects, to manage own Blender renders efficiently. Input files are
> typically openexrs or pngs, and export to whatever (mmovie) format you
> like.
>
> Blender Sequencer just isn't a generic multi-purpose video editor
> system. Not by design, and impossible to manage with our limited
> resources. The more narrow we can keep our Sequencer, the better it
> will work. :)
>
>
> -Ton-"
>
> It seems that Blender would be a 'down-stream' tool, that should come after
> editorial/story development.
>
> But...
>
> ...the Open Movies 'have' used the VSE to layout storyboards against voice
> acting (sound clips) and music score. This is editorial I think? However
> they 'did not' use video clips, instead they use still images that are
> replaced with rendered art as the production goes on, and some audio clips.
>
> In this way "prototyping" is testing a movie with storyboard panels in the
> VSE.
> While "assemblage" or montage of renders is what happens at the end of a
> job. That is, you collect all the scenes/shots that you have rendered and
> place them in order, trimming the elements that you don't require.
>
> Paulo I think that your proposal fits these requirements PERFECTLY ;)
>  Unfortunately none of the media handling you would expect in a video
> editor, fits the Blender goals :(
>
> So there will be:
>
> -NO clip bins internally
>
> -NO clip metadata like keywords or notes
>
> -NO source preview/skimmer
>
> -NO marking of source in-points and timeline in-points, that is
> pre-trimming before the edit
>
> -NO audio mixing tools like basic EQ or assigned track output
>
> -NO improved speed effects like Optical Flow or frame blending
>
> -NO VSE to Compositor conform, that is no way to round trip edited VSE
> clips to compositor for applying effects (there is an addon that tries).
>
> -NO EDL or XML export/import of edited sequences (potential solution to
> Compositor roundtrip problem).
>
>
>
> They just aren't suitable it seems.
>
> P.S.
> This last bf mailing list email gives me some hope...
> http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2013-June/041070.html
>
> "For example: the Sequencer code now can get a full makeover without
> breaking the rest of Blender. It's highly needed to do that.
>
> Solutions for having tracking/compositing/sequencer work together are
> there too. What I'd like to explore is some kindof image-depsgraph. A
> user then can manage image dependencies in Blender like: render to
> image, which gets used as a texture in other render, which goes to
> compositor, which goes into a VSE, etc etc.
>
> "
>
> Cheers
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Paulo José Amaro <pauloup at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thank you very much for presenting me to this patch and the addon. This
> > feature is something that I ever desired to have in VSE and it certainly
> > should be included in Blender natively. I hope to see this to gain
> > attention from more people.
> >
> > Thanks for the links also. I already knew them, but still so they are
> good
> > references to be read more than once. Before writing my ideas I checked
> if
> > there was something already in the wiki, but I had found nothing related
> to
> > VSE. Is there any link where I could find more info about the mould
> you've
> > cited?
> >
> > Or may you explain me more about the implications of "keep it as a tool
> for
> > "assemblage of rendered scenes" or for "prototyping storyboards". This
> > description seems not much exciting, but more like a advice to invest not
> > much effort on VSE as a video edition tool. This would make me sad,
> because
> > Blender is really the most powerful, flexible and stable free tool I
> > already worked with video. :-(
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:56 PM, David McSween <3pointedit at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > And here is the UI team Project Page
> > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/12/
> > >
> > > While this is the UI proposals page
> > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI
> > >
> > > I guess your well thought out suggestions should go there. But I do
> hope
> > > you get more feedback here of course.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:52 PM, David McSween <3pointedit at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Paulo, have you also seen this patch from Jehan
> > > > https://developer.blender.org/T34064
> > > >
> > > > It provides a new way to interact with the media in the preview
> window
> > > > (much like the translate addon does). Allowing the user to scale and
> > crop
> > > > dynamically. Sadly I don't have the resources to build my own Blender
> > > with
> > > > patches. Taken together, your UI concepts and the interaction patch
> > would
> > > > really improve the VSE without breaking the BF approved mould. That
> is
> > > the
> > > > preference to keep it as a tool for "assemblage of rendered scenes"
> or
> > > for
> > > > "prototyping storyboards".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Paulo José Amaro <pauloup at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm Paulo Jose, from Brazil, and I want to share some ideas and
> > > >> suggestions
> > > >> about the Video Sequencer Editor's user interface.
> > > >>
> > > >> I sent my first message to bf-commiters mails list and had very good
> > > >> suggestions there. Then someone told me that here could be a better
> > > place
> > > >> to discuss this. So I'm copying my message here.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm being a Blender user for many years and the main functionality I
> > use
> > > >> is
> > > >> the VSE. Along the years, I used many tools, from VirtualDub to
> Adobe
> > > >> Premiere. Blender is by far the most complete and powerful open
> source
> > > >> software to work with, its flexibility is the keyword here. But
> there
> > > are
> > > >> some areas of VSE that still can be improved.
> > > >>
> > > >> Taking advantage of the new Tabs feature which is being implemented
> in
> > > >> Blender UI and the current moving to reorganizing things in a better
> > > way,
> > > >> I
> > > >> put my efforts to study how to improve Blender's VSE UI.
> > > >>
> > > >> In the past days I prepared a little Demo of a modernized UI for
> VSE,
> > > made
> > > >> with HTML+CSS+JS to simulate the Blender UI and some of its
> behavior.
> > > It's
> > > >> not a "lets throw everything away", but most like "lets move these
> > > options
> > > >> to here, those to there". The Demo includes a step by step guide to
> > > every
> > > >> change, explaining my motivation about them, so I don't get longer
> in
> > > this
> > > >> mail.
> > > >>
> > > >> You can access it here: Blender Sequencer Video Editor -
> > > >> Demo<
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5107072/blender-vse-2014/sequencer.html
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> The changes are restrict to Properties Panel. You can compare it
> with
> > > the
> > > >> current UI by clicking on "How was this screen" button. There are
> some
> > > few
> > > >> new features, but most of them are already in another parts of
> Blender
> > > and
> > > >> they are not out of scope.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like very much to know your opinion. And I'll keep to work
> on
> > > this
> > > >> based on your feedback. My intent is to try to modernize VSE,
> starting
> > > by
> > > >> the Properties Panel, then going to menus and so on.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm not a developer, but I put myself available to help with design
> > > tasks
> > > >> and maybe coding too if needed. I'm experienced with using Inkscape,
> > > >> coding
> > > >> with Python and a little of C. I just need some guidance.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm sorry for any misspelling, English is not my main language, but
> I
> > > love
> > > >> to learn! I hope to get familiar with this mail listing and actively
> > > >> participate of it. :-)
> > > >>
> > > >> Someone said that some development may be happening already to VSE.
> I
> > > did
> > > >> know nothing about it, and I would like to know more and to get
> > > involved,
> > > >> if it's possible. I'm open to adapt my proposal to the current
> > > >> development,
> > > >> or help some another way you may think I should.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you for your time and I hope my efforts may be useful somehow.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >> ~Paulo
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Bf-funboard mailing list
> > > >> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Bf-funboard at blender.org
> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Paulo José O. Amaro*
> > *Estudante na UFSJ-MG-Brazil. Blogueiro na CasaTwain.com*
> > *Freelancer* em artes gráficas, edição de vídeo, modelagem 3D, interfaces
> > web, CSS3, HTML5, Javascript, Wordpress e padrões web.
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> >
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-- 
*Paulo José O. Amaro*
*Estudante na UFSJ-MG-Brazil. Blogueiro na CasaTwain.com*
*Freelancer* em artes gráficas, edição de vídeo, modelagem 3D, interfaces
web, CSS3, HTML5, Javascript, Wordpress e padrões web.


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