[Bf-funboard] Gearshift Menus (formerly: Converting toggle buttons to pie menus)

Jude Jackson syzygy6 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 24 07:29:38 CEST 2014 

Self-correction: hold-to-open with an option in the neutral position would
allow the *key* to retain it's current functionality. ie, if when you hold
tab you get a menu of 3D viewport modes, and the center option is the last
used option, then if you tapped tab, it would do the same thing tapping tab
currently does.

On Wednesday, April 23, 2014, Jude Jackson <syzygy6 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your response! I feel like we're not quite on the same page on
> a few of these points, so I'll try and clarify my thoughts:
>
> 1. With a gearshift menu, you are not so much entering an absolute
> direction, but a sequence of directions; therefor, Up-Right is distinct
> from Right-Up. That, in theory, gives you more options for less input
> fidelity
>
> 2. If a gearshift/daisy wheel menu were opened by holding the key and
> releasing to select, then the button in the neutral/center position could
> effectively be selected by tapping the key. I'm sure there are good
> arguments for tap-to-open tap-to-select, but hold-to-open would allow pie
> menus to retain their *current* functionality
>
> 3. I don't think tactile feedback is super important with sufficiently low
> fidelity of input. In a daisy wheel, maybe I'm wrong, but I expect a user
> would need to rely (at least a little, especially after working long
> hours) on visual input to accurately select between N and NE, where I think
> muscle memory would be sufficient to choose between Up and Up-Right. A
> car's gearshift requires some lateral precision, but a gearshift menu could
> be designed to avoid that.
>
> Hope that made my points clear! I don't know what's best, but I'm looking
> forward to seeing development!
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 23, 2014, Sean Olson <seanolson at gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seanolson at gmail.com');>>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm one of the author's of the pie menu addon, and psi-fi is working on
>> the
>> implementation in finalized blender.  I don't mind your gearshift idea,
>> and
>> it would be possible in the addon to create such a menu.   It might be a
>> good idea in menus that have lots of items.  (more than 8).  The reason
>> that the daisy wheel is used is because it corresponds directly to the 4
>> cardinal directions and the in-betweens.   N, S, E, W, NE, SE, SW, NW.
>>  You
>> then can press, hold, and swipe a direction with your mouse.  You don't
>> have to read the menu entries at all and you don't have to have any actual
>> accuracy.  You don't need to "click" on any particular button - the whole
>> screen in your given direction is technically the button.   This makes the
>> "daisy" configuration tremendously fast.
>>
>> I drive a manual stick in America too, and of course you don't use your
>> eyes on that either, but the big difference is this: Tactile Feedback.
>>  You
>> can feel the gears in place, the position of the stick.   We don't have
>> access to this on a screen, so the fallback is to use your eyes to see the
>> position.   Of course using your eyes is fine, but it requires more
>> precision than to just swipe a direction.
>>
>> As far as tap vs hold - it's been brought up multiple times in the pie
>> menus addon thread.  At first it sounds like a good idea, but how do you
>> determine when to do tap functionality and when to do hold?   How many
>> miliseconds?  If somebody gets really fast with the pie menu are they
>> going
>> to hit the tap functionality by accident?  I'm pretty sure this has been
>> discussed here in more detail in this monster thread:
>>
>> http://www.blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?267414-Pie-Menus-(2-66)-Update-01-28-13
>>  There might actually be some technical issues in implementing such a
>> feature in the addon(Patrick Moore coded that part), but it could fly in
>> final version.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 11:54 PM, Jude Jackson <syzygy6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Well in that case, I'd be interested in a discussion around the idea of
>> the
>> > gearshift menu itself. Right now, it's sort of assumed that every
>> option in
>> > the pie menu proposal will be a direction in a big daisy of choices, but
>> > that doesn't seem very conducive to an efficient workflow. Personally,
>> > maybe since I'm one of the rare Americans who drives a manual
>> transmission,
>> > my gearshift idea seems intuitive, but I don't know what its limits
>> are. It
>> > might work well with 2-8 options, but beyond that it might be too clunky
>> > (of course, it's not like a big daisywheel stands much better).
>> >
>> > Anyway, a couple other keys that could be expanded:
>> >
>> > *A* - Macro selections (select all, select none, select all of X type,
>> > deselect X type)
>> > *C, B* - Condense into a single key, add circle select, box select,
>> lasso
>> > select, &c.
>> > *H* - Hide, hide group, hide everything else
>> > *O* - Choose proportional editing falloff (or disable)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 5:07 AM, Bol Bib <bollebib at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I think they're still implementing the pie menus
>> > >
>> > > They have been in the release notes off and on for a few times now
>> > >
>> > > they need to be worked on some more,I guess.
>> > >
>> > > > Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 20:42:44 -0400
>> > > > From: syzygy6 at gmail.com
>> > > > To: bf-funboard at blender.org
>> > > > Subject: [Bf-funboard] Converting toggle buttons to pie menus
>> > > >
>> > > > There was some talk for a while about introducing pie menus to
>> Blender,
>> > > > which to my knowledge never really got off the ground. I'm just
>> going
>> > to
>> > > > throw this out, since it's a way that pie menus could be
>> implemented to
>> > > add
>> > > > functionality without changing any current use.
>> > > >
>> > > > Just for example, we have tab to switch the 3D viewport between the
>> > > current
>> > > > and the last-used mode. That's fine, but if you hold tab all it
>> does is
>> > > > rapidly flash between the Object and Edit modes as fast as your
>> > computer
>> > > > can accept input. My proposal is to add to that: If you tap tab, it
>> > would
>> > > > still switch to the last-used mode, but if you *hold* tab, it could
>> > pull
>> > > up
>> > > > a pie menu giving you access to all of the available modes. Simply
>> move
>> > > > your selection to the preferred mode and release tab to select
>> (note:
>> > the
>> > > > last used mode would always be in the center, so tapping tab would
>> have
>> > > the
>> > > > same function).
>> > > >
>> > > > http://i.imgur.com/Rd7W0AZ.png
>> > > >
>> > > > I haven't tried prototyping this so I don't know how it would feel
>> best
>> > > to
>> > > > use, though I imagine that for menus that would be frequently used,
>> and
>> > > > require more than four options, a gear-shifting menu would work
>> better
>> > > than
>> > > > a big multi-pronged daisy menu; it's easier to make simple
>> directional
>> > > > gestures with the mouse than to move it in a very precise direction.
>> > This
>> > > > same type of system could be added to other keys, providing more
>> > > > functionality on fewer keys without being more difficult to use.
>> Well,
>> > in
>> > > > theory anyway, I haven't tested it so I wouldn't know.
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