[Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
Beorn Leonard
beornl at ozemail.com.au
Thu Sep 26 02:07:03 CEST 2013
I unfortunately cannot be at BConf this year.
However, I really hope there is at least one professional animator in
the crowd.
The animation UI is often neglected in these conversations.
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Sent:Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:34:39 +0200
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Brecht Van Lommel)
2. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Ruth Ivimey-Cook)
3. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Karl K?hberger)
4. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Jason van Gumster)
5. Re: Critical improvements and features (?????? ???????????)
6. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Karl K?hberger)
7. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Pawe? ?yczkowski)
8. Re: UI talk + session at bconf (Karl K?hberger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:16:39 +0200
From: Brecht Van Lommel
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Nathan,
A short video would be great, or you can point me to some text I
should mention in my talk, whatever you prefer.
Thanks,
Brecht.
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote:
> I won't be able to make it to bconf this year, unfortunately. But
I'd
> like to note that I am continuing to work on a new keymap for
Blender.
> Perhaps I can put together a short overview video for the session?
>
> --Nathan
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Brecht Van Lommel
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I will be doing a UI talk + session at the Blender Conference.
There
>> has been a lot of discussion about this topic, people proposing
ideas
>> and making mockups, so it seemed like a good idea to do something
>> related to that.
>>
>> The plan is to do two things. First I'll talk about the current
>> Blender UI design. There's a wiki page about that here, trying to
look
>> at the big picture, hidden trade-offs and issues that aren't
discussed
>> as much. It may be interesting in general for people who like to
think
>> about Blender UI design and make mockups:
>>
>> http://wikiblender.org/index.php/User:Brecht/UI
>>
>> After that we can do an open session to connect developers and
>> designers interested in working on the UI. I think we'll try to do
>> this on friday, so that further discussion can happen during the
next
>> days of the conference too.
>>
>> One thing I would love to see from designers is a mockup or sketch
of
>> what the full Blender UI should look like, addressing some of the
>> questions raised in the page linked above. It doesn't have to look
>> great, but it's interesting to see where everything fits, what is
>> removed, what is added, etc. Such mockups can be presented or
>> discussed in the session.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brecht.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-funboard mailing list
>> Bf-funboard at blender.org
>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:37:18 +0100
From: Ruth Ivimey-Cook
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Gatis Kurzemnieks wrote:
> I know interface pretty good, and with UI work I mean adding the
missing
> things - proper outliner behaviour, materials window, your
mentioned
> dependancy graph, multi object editing etc. No need to change what
is good
> - only add what is missing and do little cleanup. Seems like high
priority
> work to me.
A materials window would be nice: indeed, extend that for all
resources.
Multi-object editing is my bugbear: the ability to have several
objects
in edit mode at once. Mostly I want this because the unit of
replication/effects/transform - array/mirror et al - is the object.
Perhaps we could have group objects that can be manipulated as single
objects are now?
From my PoV the UV editor auto-mapping is still in need of a lot of
love: it still takes far longer to do some tasks than it should.
The facility I would like most is to be able to replicate (somehow) a
specific hole in a shape (take arbitrary extrude, intersect with a
plane
and make hole to match shape's intersection). Use-case: replicating
complex window surrounds over a building's face.
So: There are several good ideas in this discussion, and perhaps the
Conference is the time for someone to arrange a talk/meeting to
arrange
how it will happen and who does it. I would agree the Blender
community
needs someone to "own" the UI so we don't have these apparently
endless
discussions. I expect the disconnect is something like: those who
understand UIs and using Blender and can produce an interface that
works
well aren't in a position to (perhaps can't) code them, while the
ideas
of those who might be able to code it aren't so popular. The solution
is
obviously someone/some team who can assemble a group together and say
"do it".
FWIW, mostly I like the Blender UI. There are niggles but few are big
enough to get upset about. I'll mention just one niggle: on Windows
the
default window selection is of course click-to-type, so if you
duplicate
a window (view menu) because like me you have two monitors, it would
be
nice if there was a way Blender could auto-select the other window
when
the mouse went over it, because that is the way Blender's interface
works. It may be that the only issue is that the dupe'd window should
be
a parent of the main one, and not independent, so it's always active.
[Setting Windows to point-to-type is a Bad idea: lots of UX things
break].
Someone mentioned the undesirability for windows to be topmost
including
other app's windows. In Win32, a child window of an app window -
whatever it looks like - that is topmost is always topmost just of
the
child windows of that app. The app window has it's own z-order of all
app windows, so a "topmost" child can be hidden by other apps.
Ruth
--
Software Manager & Engineer
Tel: 01223 414180
Blog: http://www.ivimey.org/blog
LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 16:25:40 +0200
From: Karl K?hberger
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Maybe we should make a forum for all the UI topics. A place, where
all users (and of course developers) could make proposals for the UI
of
Blender 3.0.
If you want, I could install such a forum and make some categories
like
"Mockups", "Icon Sets", "Outliner", "Material Editor", "Selecting
using
right-click vs.
using left-click etc.
The purpose is:
- collect and discuss all UI-related stuff at on place
- find out, what the majority of users really expects from a new UI
- provide decision help to the developers
- make Blender's UI even better by listen to the users
If there is already such a place, please let me know.
Karl
2013/9/25 Ruth Ivimey-Cook
> Gatis Kurzemnieks wrote:
> > I know interface pretty good, and with UI work I mean adding the
missing
> > things - proper outliner behaviour, materials window, your
mentioned
> > dependancy graph, multi object editing etc. No need to change
what is
> good
> > - only add what is missing and do little cleanup. Seems like high
> priority
> > work to me.
> A materials window would be nice: indeed, extend that for all
resources.
>
> Multi-object editing is my bugbear: the ability to have several
objects
> in edit mode at once. Mostly I want this because the unit of
> replication/effects/transform - array/mirror et al - is the object.
> Perhaps we could have group objects that can be manipulated as
single
> objects are now?
>
> From my PoV the UV editor auto-mapping is still in need of a lot of
> love: it still takes far longer to do some tasks than it should.
>
> The facility I would like most is to be able to replicate (somehow)
a
> specific hole in a shape (take arbitrary extrude, intersect with a
plane
> and make hole to match shape's intersection). Use-case: replicating
> complex window surrounds over a building's face.
>
> So: There are several good ideas in this discussion, and perhaps
the
> Conference is the time for someone to arrange a talk/meeting to
arrange
> how it will happen and who does it. I would agree the Blender
community
> needs someone to "own" the UI so we don't have these apparently
endless
> discussions. I expect the disconnect is something like: those who
> understand UIs and using Blender and can produce an interface that
works
> well aren't in a position to (perhaps can't) code them, while the
ideas
> of those who might be able to code it aren't so popular. The
solution is
> obviously someone/some team who can assemble a group together and
say
> "do it".
>
> FWIW, mostly I like the Blender UI. There are niggles but few are
big
> enough to get upset about. I'll mention just one niggle: on Windows
the
> default window selection is of course click-to-type, so if you
duplicate
> a window (view menu) because like me you have two monitors, it
would be
> nice if there was a way Blender could auto-select the other window
when
> the mouse went over it, because that is the way Blender's interface
> works. It may be that the only issue is that the dupe'd window
should be
> a parent of the main one, and not independent, so it's always
active.
>
> [Setting Windows to point-to-type is a Bad idea: lots of UX things
break].
>
> Someone mentioned the undesirability for windows to be topmost
including
> other app's windows. In Win32, a child window of an app window -
> whatever it looks like - that is topmost is always topmost just of
the
> child windows of that app. The app window has it's own z-order of
all
> app windows, so a "topmost" child can be hidden by other apps.
>
> Ruth
>
> --
> Software Manager & Engineer
> Tel: 01223 414180
> Blog: http://www.ivimey.org/blog
> LinkedIn: http://uklinkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 10:55:34 -0400
From: Jason van Gumster
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Karl K?hberger wrote:
> Maybe we should make a forum for all the UI topics. A place, where
> all users (and of course developers) could make proposals for the
UI of
> Blender 3.0.
That was the original intent of this mailing list (funboard =
functionality
board).
There's already an over abundance of user input... here and all over
the
internet. A "collection" repo is not really needed in my opinion.
Furthermore,
if I may be so bold, there are very few things that are suitable for
being
designed by popularity... a user interface is not one of them.
Let's see how things shake out at Blender Conference and see about
the
formation of a small UI team after that to address some of the
outstanding
issues in Blender's UI.
-Jason
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 22:04:07 +0700
From: ?????? ???????????
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Critical improvements and features
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is how I use gtk open file dialog:
In most cases I already have file manager with my working directory?
When open dialog appears I drag-n-drop file or directory from file
manager to this file open dialog and it automaticaly opens dropped
directory or opens directory which contains dropped file and selects
it. I need just hit enter and this file opens. Same with save file
dialot.
Will be nice tho have this feature in blender.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:17:08 +0200
From: Karl K?hberger
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Democratic design doesn't work, ok!
My intention was not about making elections
pro or contra a certain UI idea ;-)
But to find out what kind of UI is popular among the users is not the
same.
A popular UI could also mean, that it feels comfortable for most of
the
users.
Blender has many good ideas in his UI, some are quite unique, but
nevertheless
many users don't feel comfortable and complain about some odd
workflows.
Developers have a different view to this topic and sometimes it leads
to
non-intuitive solutions.
If this bf-funboard is adequate to find out the best solution for the
future Blender UI, then it's of course great!
2013/9/25 Jason van Gumster
>
> Karl K?hberger wrote:
>
> > Maybe we should make a forum for all the UI topics. A place,
where
> > all users (and of course developers) could make proposals for the
UI of
> > Blender 3.0.
>
> That was the original intent of this mailing list (funboard =
functionality
> board).
>
> There's already an over abundance of user input... here and all
over the
> internet. A "collection" repo is not really needed in my opinion.
> Furthermore,
> if I may be so bold, there are very few things that are suitable
for being
> designed by popularity... a user interface is not one of them.
>
> Let's see how things shake out at Blender Conference and see about
the
> formation of a small UI team after that to address some of the
outstanding
> issues in Blender's UI.
>
> -Jason
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:54:30 +0200
From: Pawe? ?yczkowski
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> But to find out what kind of UI is popular among the users
Here is a lot of user feedback about the UI if you are interested:
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?298932-Blender-UI-Mockups-and-Ideas-Requested&p=2477855#post2477855
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?302512-GSoC-2013-Toolbar-UI/page8
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 18:34:07 +0200
From: Karl K?hberger
Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] UI talk + session at bconf
To: bf-funboard at blender.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I was not aware of this thread.
Thanks for posting the link!
2013/9/25 Pawe? ?yczkowski
> > But to find out what kind of UI is popular among the users
>
> Here is a lot of user feedback about the UI if you are interested:
>
>
>
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?298932-Blender-UI-Mockups-and-Ideas-Requested&p=2477855#post2477855
>
>
>
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?302512-GSoC-2013-Toolbar-UI/page8
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard at blender.org
> http://lists.blenderorg/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
------------------------------
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