[Bf-funboard] general comments and funcionality improvement suggestions

Campbell Barton ideasman42 at gmail.com
Wed Mar 28 00:51:50 CEST 2012


I'm ignoring pressing numpad 0 switching back to last view issue -
this is an intentional feature, but rather not discuss it for now.

so it boils down to: Middle mouse drag in camera view COULD/SHOULD
keep my view (frame same area of view - zoom/pan)

listed 4 possible solutions, 1 workaround :)

== first/obvious option ==
This is tricky because for it to work...

* The regular viewport would need a SHIFT X/Y feature,
...notice if you zoom in the side of the camera view the vanishing
point is no longer centered,

* Middle Click Dragging would have to change the Field-of-view
...notice if you zoom in camera view it changes the FOV (zoom out
becomes wide angle).



This is of course possible - but I really think this would become more annoying

1) you would have this new/strange shift setting in the viewport which
would need to be controlled somehow (yet another setting we need
buttons, viewport manipulation for) - really for common work having
FOV in regular viewport is overkill IMHO,

2) Changing the users FOV every time they go out of camera view would
also be irritating IMHO, sometimes.


== cheating option 1 ==

So when you MMB drag the view it can just cheat - make a `ghost` copy
of the camera that is not displayed in the scene - and only exists for
the purpose of view navigation,

This can work but I worry it makes our code a bit messy and is a
fairly bad hack for a spesific use case, users would also need to be
aware that a view is in this new `mode`, and have a way to get out of
it.


== cheating option 2 ==

Allow the camera to be moved but dont adjust its location rotation (a
temporary transform which isnt stored in the object - internally this
would change the final matrix but not the loc/scale/rot).

Again, can work but is adding an exceptional case we have to keep
supporting (camera matrix and location being intentionally out of
sync) and think this could backfire easily and be hard to support.


== best guess ==

Without adding viewport shift or changing FOV.
Surely its possible to place the view *roughly* in the same place as
you are zoomed to?

eeeh - well yes - but you would need to check on the depth of objects
infront of you - then re-position the view based on this to
*approximately* frame those same objects,

I think this is the best option since it doesnt add difficult to
support code - and only changes the behavior in oneplace.

Still, guesses can be infuriatingly wrong - should empties/lamps be
included? - should the median depth be used or the closest object?
what if there is 1px of a close object in the view, should that be
ignored? etc........


== don't solve, workaround ==

You will notice in non camera view, Shft+B, will border zoom onto an
area (using depth), currently Shif+B is used for border render in the
camear view but with some keybinding changes we can easy have it
working.

This way you can define a region of interest and move out of camera
view to zoom into it.

The operator that does this could very easily have an option to
initialize its border from the view bounds so you dont actually need
to draw the border.

Once this is done is basically just a matter of adding access to this
feature in a way that suits you. Im not convinced this is good default
behavior - because it will zoom into a small object if there is only
one in the scene, but It could be configured to be useful to the
porpose you are taking about IMHO.

Perhaps just having a way to access border zoom in camera mode would be enough.



On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:30 AM, Steven Schoorens <bollebib at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> That is exactly what I mean
> You put it so much better then I did XD
>
> and I would also second your request.
> I havent worked with multiple camera's yet,in blender, but mostly I prefer only one.
> So maybe it could be that there are 2 ways to work with this: One way is to make a new camera with some shortcut as you propose (I think),but I would also propose a second suboption that lets you reuse your current camera if you so wish-> this way you move the camera and put a keyframe (with autokeyframe on)automaticly. Doing this you can quickly move through your scene AND in time to make quick camera movements,and refine them afterwards.
>
>
> wouldn't this maybe tie in a bit with your last request ? (save and load view states)
> But it might still be good to have that last feature as well. I notice that 9 on the numpad is the only number not doing anything viewport related right now (unless I'm missing something?)
> Maybe it might be good to assign that button to that feature,and pressing "9" will get you the Floating saved view list,Shift+9 lets you add new views,alt+9 lets you remove them
>
>
>
> this way you save multple views you find interesting and recall them as needed...
>
> I think this would work fine,unless someone has a different idea?
>
>
>
> kind regards
>
>
> Steven
>
>> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:32:04 +0200
>> From: j at zafio.com
>> To: bf-funboard at blender.org
>> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] general comments and funcionality improvement      suggestions
>>
>> If I understood it right, your concern is the transition from Camera View
>> to 3d View, which happens when rotating (or even just press MMB once) so
>> the "jumpcut" would be the small "zoom out" that leaves the camera's
>> "gizmo" just in front, right?
>> Plus any panning and zooming you do in Camera view is lost when you switch
>> to 3d view...
>>
>> So, you want an option for the 3d view to inherit the "view state/settings"
>> of the active camera, so there is a clear and flickerless transition, right?
>>
>> I think it is a good idea, in fact, it would be also interesting to add the
>> "inverse" option to match the camera to the 3d view.
>> As it is pretty usual you move around a scene in 3d view and you find a
>> nice angle you want to use to render, but you have to create a camera and
>> recreate the same settings... which takes more time than checking an option
>> or pressing a shortcut.
>>
>> This last option could be also integrated right in the "add camera" panel,
>> and even creating it from the Add menu or with a shortcut, adding SHIFT or
>> ALT.
>>
>> Another interesting feature would be to save and load view states (for
>> either 3d views or Cameras), rather than having to create lots of cameras.
>> It is faster to press a shortcut, than having to create and setup a new
>> camera each time.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Bol Bib <bollebib at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hello and thank you very much for replying ^^
>> >
>> > I call it "snap back" but it's actually more of a 'jumpcut' sort of thing.
>> >
>> >
>> >  I'll talk you through the steps I take for a real use scenario:
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm in animating stage of my work process(but doesn't matter which process
>> > you are in really...),and I just want to animate and look at how everything
>> > will look in the camera,.
>> > So I push '0' and I get the camera view. I move stuff around, I zoom
>> > in/zoom out,move the 3D view up/down,but remain in camera view mode (so no
>> > rotation of the 3Dview).
>> >
>> >
>> > Then I want to animate some detail which for whatever reason doesn't quite
>> > work from the camera view (for example:the object I want to animate is
>> > behind the object )
>> > so I'd have to rotate to get a better view of the bone/object,right?
>> > But when you try to rotate the viewport/3D view when you are IN Camera
>> > mode and you have done several operations with the 3D view (zoomed in/out,
>> > moved 3Dview...)
>> > as soon as you rotate the view you snap back to where the camera phyiscly
>> > is,in the scene,and any zoom or move you had,is gone,and you have to
>> > re-zoom en re-move your viewport to where you were working on.
>> > This can be could annoying when having to to lots of small tweaks to an
>> > animation or a model or a scene.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -So in short this is how blender now acts:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > press 0 ->move and zoom 3D view a bit->when trying to rotate=> JUMPCUT to
>> > where camera really is ,and only then normal 3Dview behaviour (which is not
>> > wanted behaviour.)
>> >
>> > -THis is what I would like
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > press 0 ->move and zoom 3D View a bit->when trying to rotate=> Just normal
>> > 3D view behaviour, the Camera contour/passepartout just disappears without
>> > the need for a jump
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Of course this problem is not such a problem if you use different 3D views
>> > at once (so you can have a dedicated camera view viewport),
>> > but this greatly reduces screen estate and not every one has multiple
>> > monitors,or a huge one to make up for that.
>> >
>> >  When repressing '0' ,apparently the camera view still remembers those
>> > view translations,which is good. But this issue make me lose quite a bit of
>> > time because of needing to re-zoom and/re-move the viewport every time I
>> > rotate out of the camera view
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -to recap:  I just want the camera view to behave like any other 3D
>> > viewport,in that when you rotate the view,it just rotates like a 3D view.
>> > You DO in fact LEAVE the camera view (as it is now),but leave it WITHOUT
>> > any jumps in the viewport.
>> >
>> > The "lock camera to view "mode make the 3D view behave like a normal
>> > viewport but it ACTUALLY moves the camera. So you would have to reposition
>> > your camera if you did this,which is no solution to my problem.
>> >
>> >
>> > Does anyone NEED that kind of snapback/jumpcut? If they do,then make my
>> > "solution" ,if you deem it just, an option. If they don't, well maybe this
>> > could/should be default behaviour?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I hope this is clear ,now,if you have any more questions I'd be happy to
>> > answer them.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Incidentally,are my other "issues" in that huge "wishlist"(and in the
>> > second one) clear? Am I just being an entitled bastard? (very possibly...)
>> > Or are some points worthy of being considered?
>> > I just wish to complete some workparadigms the people at blender obviously
>> > had in mind, and extend them to the whole program (like the filters,Follow
>> > Context...),
>> > as opposed to only here and there (like in some cases right now) and
>> > propose some ideas to make blender even more awesome then it is.
>> > I do not think I'm asking for very difficult stuff (like bmesh or cycles
>> > or a pony XD) but ,in my opinion, stuff that would make lots of people's
>> > workflow much more enjoyable,quick and organised (like filters, hiding of
>> > UI elements...)
>> >
>> > Except perhaps number 10 (LINK BONES and their respective keyframes) this
>> > one might be a bit too much (but would be very usefull though) for a simple
>> > patch.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Would you prefer it if I make a new mail for every issue I have ,or is
>> > bundling them like that okay?
>> > Should I wait a bit before posting new ones? Or can I post them whenever?
>> > I don't want to exageratewith lots of posts, but  I'm just very passionate
>> > about user comfort in programs. (and Blender is the best one yet ,but could
>> > be even better!)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Steven
>> >
>> >
>> > > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:36:09 +1100
>> > > From: ideasman42 at gmail.com
>> > > To: bf-funboard at blender.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] general comments and funcionality improvement
>> >      suggestions
>> > >
>> > > > 1. looking out of the camera ,from which I animate, if I try to rotate
>> > the view, going OUT of said camera mode,I always get a violent snap back to
>> > the camera,regardless of where I was zooming with the camera. While I know
>> > this is logical behaviour,it is not functional behaviour. While animating
>> > one zooms ,rotates, and moves on the fly while adjusting bones and objects.
>> > The snapback I experience makes me have to re-frame and re-zoom back to
>> > where I was everytime.
>> > > >
>> > > > There IS the lock camera to view mode, which has good functionality
>> > but it actually moves the camera ,and at this point in the animation,I
>> > actually DONT want the camera to move.
>> > > >
>> > > > To recap,when I am in camera view mode,i just want the viewport to
>> > behave like a viewport and not snap back everyime.
>> > >
>> > > Hi. I read this a couple of times but cant follow it - you dont want
>> > > the camera to move but also dont want 'snap back' -
>> > > could you explain in detail how you think it could work better?
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Bf-funboard mailing list
>> > > Bf-funboard at blender.org
>> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>> >
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>> >
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-- 
- Campbell


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