[Bf-funboard] Absolute scale in Edit mode

"Peter Hähnlein" hidarikiki at gmx.net
Mon Aug 13 23:07:01 CEST 2012


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 14:42:27 +0200
> Von: Reiner <reiner.prokein at t-online.de>
> An: bf-funboard at blender.org
> Betreff: Re: [Bf-funboard] Absolute scale in Edit mode

> Hello Haunt,
> 
> Absolute values in Edit mode should be the same absolute values than in 
> Object Mode: World units. And scale along X, or Y or Z, or all three at 
> once. We have already the factor scaling for that. I just request three 
> more edit boxes that displays the bounding box dimensions of the 
> selection, and provides a way to modify this dimensions too.
> 
> In Edit mode you can for example choose hotkey s for scale, then enter X 
> for the X direction, followed by the factor of 1.5. The selection will 
> scale by factor 1.5 now in X direction. When the selection was 2.2 in X, 
> then it will be 3.3 now. Only problem is that you don`t know if your 
> selection was 2.2 in X. There is no edit box that tells you the 
> dimensions of your selection in Edit mode yet. What i would want to do 
> here is to use absolute values instead the factor. Like scale it to 
> 3.425. And that`s where i would need some edit boxes. To display the 
> bounding box dimensions of the selection and to change the values by 
> numeric input.

I understand you and I think I'm in alignment. The dimensions of the selection inside edit mode as three values, three locks to exclude axes from changes and a checkbox to make sure you can change all three axes by changing one dimension. This provides a lot of flexibility.

Hm, the functionality of the locks would not be totally consistent with object mode...

Cheers 
Haunt 










Am 13.08.2012 14:29, schrieb "Peter Hähnlein":
> > Hello Reiner
> >
> >    Wouldn't a modifier key be nice inside scale mode using the numerical
> input? But then there's another problem. How do you tell Blender what the
> absolute value means? Should it scale based on x, y or z dimension?
> >
> >    What might be interesting, since it's already in object mode and
> therefore consistent would be to display three dimension buttons for the
> selection. This should do the trick.
> >
> >    Provided you can lock the scale so dimension y and z change
> accordingly when you adjust x.
> >
> > Didn't Blender have a lock scale feature before? Can't find it right
> now.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Haunt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> >> Datum: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:27:02 +0200
> >> Von: Reiner <reiner.prokein at t-online.de>
> >> An: bf-funboard at blender.org
> >> Betreff: Re: [Bf-funboard] Absolute scale in Edit mode
> >> This is of course true for modifiers like the Array tool. I can see the
> >> trouble ahead too. My initial request regards the edit mode though,
> >> while modifying a selection. Vertices, edges and faces. And here i
> don`t
> >> have the choice between relative and constant from what i know. All i
> >> can do is to scale it relative, by a factor. Or manually. We just got
> >> off the track a bit by the comment of Ruth.
> >>
> >> In edit mode you could immediately apply the new scale to the vertices,
> >> like you would have moved them one by one. No dealing with modifiers
> >> necessary here at this level. Basically just getting the bounding box
> >> dimensions of the selection, and set it to the new dimension values.
> >> This would be a relief to avoid the current workarounds.
> >>
> >> It would even help to have at least the bouding box dimensions of my
> >> selection displayed somewhere. Then i could manually scale towards my
> >> target values. All we have displayed for a selection is the Median
> >> values at the moment. Hm, reminds me that rotation values would also be
> >> a nice idea :)
> >>
> >>    Am 12.08.2012 22:41, schrieb Campbell Barton:
> >>> This comment could be answered in a few ways.
> >>>
> >>> Simple answer is - dont use relative offset, instead use constant
> >> offset.
> >>> But this issue isn't limited to the array modifier, you might want any
> >>> modifier to be calculated in absolute values.
> >>> Common issue is solidify modifier on a scaled object doesnt work as
> >>> users expect.
> >>>
> >>> The way the modifier system works, this just isn't supported well, it
> >>> could be supported though Im not sure if its worth adding.
> >>>
> >>> This could be done on a per-modifier basis - each modifier could
> >>> transform geometry into absolute values, recalculate normals, execute
> >>> the modifier, transform back and recalc normals, this could be an
> >>> option too which each modifier need not concern its self with.
> >>> While the extra transform is a bit annoying, the main reason Id prefer
> >>> not do this is it means the modifier calculation then depends on the
> >>> objects transformation.
> >>>
> >>> This way you may have many animated animated objects getting their
> >>> modifiers recalculated every frame change because their transformation
> >>> changes too.
> >>>
> >>> It could be done more cleverly, so for example, solidify could detect
> >>> changes in scale-only (other modifiers rotation only for rg) and only
> >>> recalculate then, but this could still fall apart with floating
> >>> precision issues with different scale scenes - with parent hierarchies
> >>> and constraints, float precision may cause the modifier to be
> >>> recalculated on every frame change even though to the eye it should
> >>> not be changing.
> >>>
> >>> Even having to detect changes in transform at all I think its a bit
> >> problematic.
> >>> So IMHO this is just a limitation artists need to work with, and
> >>> trying to fix may cause more issues then it solves not to mention over
> >>> complicating the modifier stack.
> >>>
> >>> We could just accept that this will cause slow downs and not try to be
> >>> clever and add as an option with a warning, but Im still not convinced
> >>> its really needed.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM, ruth at ivimey.org <ruth at ivimey.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>> Talking about scale reminds me that the way the array modifier
> >> currently works seems very odd to me, as the values entered seem to be
> relative to
> >> the size of the object in that dimension. It would be nice,  I think,
> if
> >> they were absolute.
> >>>> Sent from my HTC
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Reply message -----
> >>>> From: "Reiner" <reiner.prokein at t-online.de>
> >>>> To: <bf-funboard at blender.org>
> >>>> Subject: [Bf-funboard] Absolute scale in Edit mode
> >>>> Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 11:58 am
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> One thing i heavily miss in Blender is the ability to scale a mesh
> >>>> selection in Edit mode by absolute values. Like scaling a face or a
> >>>> cylinder shape to 1.0 x 2.5. The current scale in Edit mode works by
> a
> >>>> factor though. Think of a building that you scale bigger. Now the
> >> window
> >>>> holes doesn`t longer fit to the windows. And you need to scale this
> >>>> window holes to the values of the windows again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Workarounds are possible, like separating the face/s or the cylinder
> >>>> shape, scale it in object mode, join again, and reconnect the lost
> >>>> vertices. But this is cumbersome.
> >>>>
> >>>> Could we please have a way to scale a mesh selection by absolute
> >> values?
> >>>> Tiles
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> >>
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