[Bf-funboard] Empties in the bone hierarchy

joe joeedh at gmail.com
Mon Mar 30 15:17:39 CEST 2009

Bone shapes are not a time problem, which any serious rigger will tell
you.  Rigging isn't magically easier just because you can have
object/bones mixed, either.  Rigging is an inherently difficult
problem, but the workarounds related to mixed objects/bones tend to be
fairly easy, and not that slow to do.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:23 AM, David Bryant <aceone at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> When you are working in a pro studio enviroment, time is money so any time
> you save is time to meet your deadline and less money squandered on paid but
> lost manhours.So, most pro rig rig controls use simple controls (boxes,
> circles,crosses,spheres). Secondly, non armature controls makes the rig
> "cleaner" for the animator to be able pose effectively.The less you have to
> "hide"on a rig represents less package computation thus faster graphical
> response.In Blender, you have to designate which shape you would like the
> bone to take by calling forth an object, cause the bone to draw the object
> (which has to already exist somewhere in your .blend file) and hide the
> object that the bone is going to look like (that has to exist but is doing
> nothing but existing)and use the bone that looks tlike the original object
> anyway.

This really isn't a problem in practice.  Rigs in other apps have
"hidden" portions too; all production rigs do.  Besides, whether you
use objects or bones, it's the same computational complexity, I don't
get this idea of it being more responsive.

> Imagine 6 characters with complex rigs with bones that look like something
> they're representing with the original objects just "exisiting" in the
> .blend file when all that had to be done is to be able to use the original
> object anyway.You have objects in your files doing nothing but they have to
> be there "hiding" because if they didn't exist you would have no icons
> because the bones would have nothing to "look like".

Again, this is not a problem in practice.  It's also something that'd
be better solved by allowing use of the empty shapes with bones.  It's
definitely not a time sink in any way.

> Other packages don't have pose mode either.So there are no objects that
> can't be used in their versions of the action editor.Try using the action
> editor and try to adjust timing with an empty or non bone in concert with
> your rig (using bones)in pose mode.You simply can't because it's not an
> intergrated part of your rig.So, now you have to use workarounds that take
> more time.That's why you need bone heirarchy with objects in Blender.

Well, this does work in 2.5.

> If you're a hobbyist, you have all day to do these things.If you make your
> money by rigging and animating, and have to meet deadlines, every step saved
> is a plus.The less you have to "hide" on a rig, is less you have to remember
> to keep track of and in a pro setting, the less the animator has to tamper
> with to break your rigs.

This isn't true.  As I've said many times, these problems you're
discussing don't exist.  I'm a fair rigger myself, and I have plenty
of experience with this.  And the time you spend solving these
problems is like 1% of total rig time.  Besides, you always have to
hide something, all good rigs work that way, in all apps.

And animators should *never* tamper with rigs, ever.  That's why you
hire TDs.  Rigging is simply too complicated for casual tampering with
it.  If something breaks, you have your TD fix it.  You should never
expect your animators too, unless their doubling as TDs.


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