[Bf-funboard] new blender builds.
car
bf-funboard@blender.org
Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:07:39 -0400
Hello. I had installed Panther ! Woot Woot!
Blender runs great on it ! . But my ISP program did not work on it so I
had
to sadly downgrade back to jaguar.
I am asking here if somebody could post an OSX build of the newest BF
build with the new GUI that Ton is toiling over so much. I want to bug
test and see everybodys work.
As I did not install developer tools . I plan to get back to panther
as soon as I can. And you should to. ^v^
On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 06:00 AM,
bf-funboard-request@blender.org wrote:
> Send Bf-funboard mailing list submissions to
> bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> bf-funboard-request@blender.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> bf-funboard-admin@blender.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Bf-funboard digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Toolbox, mmh, 5 (Thorsten Wilms)
> 2. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 (Douglas Bischoff)
> 3. (Douglas) Toolbox, mmh, 5 (Thorsten Wilms)
> 4. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 (ilac)
> 5. Re: Undo possibilities (Janek Kozicki)
> 6. Re: Undo possibilities (Alexander Ewering)
> 7. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 (Luke Wenke)
> 8. Re: Undo Possibilities (D.J. Capelis)
> 9. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 (Thorsten Wilms)
> 10. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5, Directions (Thorsten Wilms)
> 11. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 (Luke Wenke)
> 12. Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 / Relation, Behaviour (Thorsten Wilms)
> 13. Re: Reorganising the EditButtons (Landis Fields)
> 14. Re: (Landis misc stuff) [Bf-funboard] Reorganising the
> EditButtons (Luke Wenke)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:48:02 +0200
> From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> Hallo!
>
> The all new, now 8 way hybrid Toolbox:
>
> http://wrstud.urz.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/en/blender_ui/
>
>
> Please take a look, it's a big change. And I've added an
> image to explain why this thing is just great (I think).
>
>
> ---
> Thorsten
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:25:03 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
> From: Douglas Bischoff <bischofftep@mac.com>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 11:48 AM, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
>
>> Please take a look, it's a big change. And I've added an
>> image to explain why this thing is just great (I think).
>
> You already point out that you don't have 3rd level menusystems worked
> out yet, but I'd like to re-emphasize that some sort of visual cue
> should exist that points to another level available (like > or
> something similar).
>
> Would it be possible to have a radial toolbox and a "traditional"
> toolbox be user-selectable? This might be more of a coding pain than
> it's worth, but to at least run it by some users to see what they
> think?
>
> I would like to try the new layout and see how it works... but without
> having a chance to play with it & see if it speeds my work, I am
> reluctant to go this way.
>
> Nice work putting the presentation together, Thorsten!
>
> -Bischofftep
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:35:06 +0200
> From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: [Bf-funboard] (Douglas) Toolbox, mmh, 5
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 01:25:03PM -0400, Douglas Bischoff wrote:
>> You already point out that you don't have 3rd level menusystems worked
>> out yet, but I'd like to re-emphasize that some sort of visual cue
>> should exist that points to another level available (like > or
>> something similar).
>
> 3rd level will be the same way as presented last time (except some
> divine inspiration hits me).
> I have listed arrows indicating 3rd level menus under "Still missing"
> on my page.
>
>> Would it be possible to have a radial toolbox and a "traditional"
>> toolbox be user-selectable? This might be more of a coding pain than
>> it's worth, but to at least run it by some users to see what they
>> think?
>
>> I would like to try the new layout and see how it works... but without
>> having a chance to play with it & see if it speeds my work, I am
>> reluctant to go this way.
>
> Ton already stated that he's going to implement a framework for
> something
> like this. So you will propably have the opportunity to test it and
> give feedback before it goes (or doesn't) go into main blender.
>
> In the end I need to see it in action too, before I know how
> good (or bad?) it realy is.
>
>> Nice work putting the presentation together, Thorsten!
>>
>> -Bischofftep
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> ---
> Thorsten
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: "ilac" <ilac@maltanet.net>
> To: <bf-funboard@blender.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:01:13 +0200
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> Got a little critism if u don't mind:
>
> Don't know if there's theory to back me up but that does not look like
> the
> most natural way of orientating it!
>
> It's not the division of eight but the directions. I would rather have
> :
> North, South, east, west, NS, NE, SW, SE. As it is now your hotspots
> are
> NNE, NEE, NNW, NWW,SEE, SWW, SSE, SSW! They are all along
> uncomfortable
> diagonals! :o/ Although the hotspot angle would be the same in
> degrees;
> N,S,E,W, NS, NE, SW, SE seem easier for mouse movements as you have 4
> 45degree diagonals and 4 non diagonals.
>
> Look at your 'white' cross in the top image. That should be the
> direction of
> the movements rather than the dividers of the space!
>
> Thanks! :o)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thorsten Wilms" <t_w_@freenet.de>
> To: <bf-funboard@blender.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 5:48 PM
> Subject: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
>
>
>> Hallo!
>>
>> The all new, now 8 way hybrid Toolbox:
>>
>> http://wrstud.urz.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/en/blender_ui/
>>
>>
>> Please take a look, it's a big change. And I've added an
>> image to explain why this thing is just great (I think).
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Thorsten
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-funboard mailing list
>> Bf-funboard@blender.org
>> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:16:09 +0200
> From: Janek Kozicki <janek_listy@wp.pl>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Undo possibilities
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
>> Maybe this should wait, until there is a normal, omnipresent undo
>> implemented into blender.
>
> is anybody currently working on this? (please answer...)
>
> --
> # Janek Kozicki
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:42:21 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Alexander Ewering <blender@instinctive.de>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Undo possibilities
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Janek Kozicki wrote:
>
>>> Maybe this should wait, until there is a normal, omnipresent undo
>>> implemented into blender.
>>
>> is anybody currently working on this? (please answer...)
>
> Well, after implementing editmode undo, me and Ton looked for a simple
> way
> to implement a generic undo stack, and Ton mentioned a former NaNer's
> idea
> to simply fork() for each undoable action, and wake up children when
> the
> user wants undo.
>
> I implemented that partially, but got into issues with multiple
> processes
> using X/GL resources, and the GHOST mailing list is completely dead,
> so I
> didn't get a lot of help and gave up for now.
>
>
> | alexander ewering instinctive new media
> | ae[@]instinctive[.]de http://www[.]instinctive[.]de
> | null-zwo-drei-neun-drei-zwo-zwo-null-fuenf-fuenf-acht
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Luke Wenke" <iljwamh1234567890@hotmail.com>
> To: <bf-funboard@blender.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:19:10 +1000
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> Hi,
> The boolean operations (could be shortened to "Boolean...") item could
> lead
> to a submenu which lets you choose the boolean operation. The same
> could go
> for other operations that lead to pop-up menus, including Copy
> Property,
> track/parent things, etc. And the things that lead to pop-up menus
> should
> have dots after them like this.... or little arrows >> or something.
> And the hotkey for Boolean (and other things) could be shown there -
> perhaps
> in gray.
> Near the centre of the menu, I think there shouldn't be diagonal lines
> - I
> find that too distracting. The lines can continue across being
> horizontal.
> As far as the red thing in the centre goes, what happens if you type
> stuff?
> Does the entire pop-up menu expand? Or does it disappear?
> I think the Parent and Track things should be renamed....
> e.g.
> "Track <activeObjectName>" (instead of "Make Track")
> For clear track maybe it could be "Track nothing" since track is a
> verb and
> not really a noun.
> For "Make Parent", maybe it could be:
> "<activeObjectName> is Parent"
> I think that is far more clear.
> For "clear parent" it could be
> "No Parent"
> That makes it clear that the actual parent object isn't being
> changed...
> just the child object's data about what its parent is.
> - Luke.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Hallo!
>>
>> The all new, now 8 way hybrid Toolbox:
>>
>> http://wrstud.urz.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/en/blender_ui/
>>
>>
>> Please take a look, it's a big change. And I've added an
>> image to explain why this thing is just great (I think).
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Thorsten
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-funboard mailing list
>> Bf-funboard@blender.org
>> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "D.J. Capelis" <djcapelisp@yahoo.com>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: [Bf-funboard] Re: Undo Possibilities
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
>> Maybe this should wait, until there is a normal,
>> omnipresent undo implemented into blender.
>
> The idea is that this is supposed to be an idea for an
> easy to implement omnipresent undo feature.
>
> This is something that's really been messing with my
> head and an undo feature it a must. So I thought one
> up. In the process, I also realized it could just as
> easily be a branching undo.
>
> Here's the general premise. After every operation,
> blender saves something like a .blend (like the
> autosave) except, it's done after every operation.
> This is stored in a series of .diffs
>
> When the user requests and undo, they can rollback to
> any point in which the .diffs extend. Seeing as you
> keep records of the .diffs, you might as well allow
> branching undo as it's trivial from that point.
>
> When the user saves the file, all the .diff files are
> merged and the extra ones tossed to save disk space.
> Seems like something that's fairly simple and possible
> to implement without too much excess overhead. I'm
> interested to see what Ton and some of the devs who
> might be implementing it (I would, but I don't have
> any experience with blender's codebase or the language
> to likely do a good job of it...) think of it's speed
> tradeoffs. If the speed tradeoffs are too great then
> make it a user option. It's clear that blender needs
> this, even if it's an option and this seems like a
> viable alternative.
>
> If you do find some drudge work for me to help in with
> the implementation, or something I can do to help this
> feature go in, I'd be happy and honored to do it.
>
> This is an answer, not something to be ignored until
> another answer pops up that might be worse and harder
> to modify for branching. I'd like to hear the reasons
> on why exactly this is infeasible? If it isn't, then
> I'll write up a patch myself if I have to... (I'd take
> me forever and a day and would be buggier than code
> ton et. al. likely write in their sleep, but that's
> not the point.)
>
> =====
> ~D.J. Capelis~
> Network Security and Cryptography Researcher.
> Developer of the FOML NewSE codefork - http://se.solarmatrix.net
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:53:01 +0200
> From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 12:19:10PM +1000, Luke Wenke wrote:
>> Hi,
>> The boolean operations (could be shortened to "Boolean...") item
>> could lead
>> to a submenu which lets you choose the boolean operation. The same
>> could go
>> for other operations that lead to pop-up menus, including Copy
>> Property,
>> track/parent things, etc. And the things that lead to pop-up menus
>> should
>> have dots after them like this.... or little arrows >> or something.
>
> Yes. I was going to turn the current popups into submenus anyway.
> And likes stated several times: there will be arrows (or some thing).
>
>> And the hotkey for Boolean (and other things) could be shown there -
>> perhaps
>> in gray.
>
> With the exception of the toplevel, where shortcuts would be spare and
> ugly,
> I will include them as soon as I'm happy with layout and organization.
>
>> Near the centre of the menu, I think there shouldn't be diagonal
>> lines - I
>> find that too distracting. The lines can continue across being
>> horizontal.
>
> Tried that. Looks a bit cleaner, but it doesn't communicate the radial
> nature
> of this thing, something very important in my opinion.
>
>> As far as the red thing in the centre goes, what happens if you type
>> stuff?
>> Does the entire pop-up menu expand? Or does it disappear?
>
> A box will appear below it, showing the possible completions. I think
> the
> rest of the menu could stay on screen for having a cancel function, a
> way
> out of keyboard input.
>
>> I think the Parent and Track things should be renamed....
>> e.g.
>> "Track <activeObjectName>" (instead of "Make Track")
>> For clear track maybe it could be "Track nothing" since track is a
>> verb and
>> not really a noun.
>> For "Make Parent", maybe it could be:
>> "<activeObjectName> is Parent"
>> I think that is far more clear.
>> For "clear parent" it could be
>> "No Parent"
>> That makes it clear that the actual parent object isn't being
>> changed...
>> just the child object's data about what its parent is.
>
> Ton stated that the renaming stuff should happen after 2.3 (the
> redesign will
> not end there). He said it in the context of the buttons window, but I
> guess
> it applies here at well.
>
> So for now I only care for renaming if it affects the organization of
> the
> menu.
>
> Any ideas for a better name for the menu with tracking and parenting?
> (I called it 'Relation')
>
>
> ---
> Thorsten
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:19:26 +0200
> From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: [Bf-funboard] Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5, Directions
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 11:01:13PM +0200, ilac wrote:
>> Got a little critism if u don't mind:
>>
>> Don't know if there's theory to back me up but that does not look
>> like the
>> most natural way of orientating it!
>>
>> It's not the division of eight but the directions. I would rather
>> have :
>> North, South, east, west, NS, NE, SW, SE. As it is now your hotspots
>> are
>> NNE, NEE, NNW, NWW,SEE, SWW, SSE, SSW! They are all along
>> uncomfortable
>> diagonals! :o/ Although the hotspot angle would be the same in
>> degrees;
>> N,S,E,W, NS, NE, SW, SE seem easier for mouse movements as you have 4
>> 45degree diagonals and 4 non diagonals.
>> ...
>
> At first i tried to do it with the straight compass directions.
> It doesn't work so good for the layout.
>
> It's much easier this way to integarte the items into a compact,
> even layout. If you don't believe me, try it yourself!
>
> I don't think there is such a thing as uncomfortable angles for
> mouse movement. Everybody is moving the mousecursor in all
> directions all the time.
>
> Even if it should be harder to get used to this directions, I think
> it's outweighed by having a cleaner and more compact layout.
>
> Far as I know it's slower to mouve the mousecursor downward or to the
> left (for right hand). I tried to integrate that into my layout.
>
>
> But it's good you have brought this point up. Thanks!
>
> ---
> Thorsten
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> From: "Luke Wenke" <iljwamh1234567890@hotmail.com>
> To: <bf-funboard@blender.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Toolbox, mmh, 5
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:32:31 +1000
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
>> Any ideas for a better name for the menu with tracking and parenting?
>> (I called it 'Relation')
>
> Well basically they dynamically affect the non-active selected object's
> rotation and/or location - same with the things in the "constraints"
> buttons... but parent/track doesn't really constrain rotation/movement
> - it
> adds additional rotation/movement....
>
> Maybe "Behaviour..." since tracking an object or following a parent is
> an
> ongoing "behaviour" (and it isn't really a constraint since it doesn't
> limit
> rotation or movement...)
>
> - Luke.
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:43:26 +0200
> From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@freenet.de>
> To: bf-funboard@blender.org
> Subject: [Bf-funboard] Re: Toolbox, mmh, 5 / Relation, Behaviour
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 06:32:31PM +1000, Luke Wenke wrote:
>>> Any ideas for a better name for the menu with tracking and parenting?
>>> (I called it 'Relation')
>>
>> Well basically they dynamically affect the non-active selected
>> object's
>> rotation and/or location - same with the things in the "constraints"
>> buttons... but parent/track doesn't really constrain
>> rotation/movement - it
>> adds additional rotation/movement....
>>
>> Maybe "Behaviour..." since tracking an object or following a parent
>> is an
>> ongoing "behaviour" (and it isn't really a constraint since it
>> doesn't limit
>> rotation or movement...)
>
> Thank you very much for you thoughts!
>
> While 'Behaviour' fits nicely to tracking, it seems strange in
> relation to
> parenting. Parenting is not only about location, it's also used for
> dupliverts and whatever else.
>
> I guess it's hard (or evem impossible) to find a good label for both
> of them.
> But I think it makes sense to have them in one menu, since there are 4
> of them in my design for things relating to objects.
>
>
> ---
> Thorsten
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:32:24 -0000
> To: <bf-funboard@blender.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-funboard] Reorganising the EditButtons
> From: "Landis Fields" <landis@landisfields.com>
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> Luke Wenke <iljwamh1234567890@hotmail.com> said:
>
>>>> Rem doubles -> weld vertices
>>>
>>> Don't know about that one. Is this how it's called in other apps?
>>> I like Rem(ove) Doubles. But it's ok anyway.
>>
>> It's "weld vertices" in 3D studio max at least.... and it can be
>> shortened
>> to "weld". It welds together all of the vertices within the given
>> threshold - even if that involves a hundred vertices.... so it isn't
>> necessarily removing doubles...
>
>
> Excellent point. I have been teaching Blender to a few of the guys at
> work
> and this among a number of other things have been brought to my
> attention
> regarding the title of some of the actions, locations for certain
> commands,
> etc. Most of these are being worked out but this one is a biggie.
> Also, did
> the old "shift-d/scale X" function change or is there a bug because I
> simply
> cannot get me meshes to flip anymore?
>
> Cheers,
> Landis
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: "Luke Wenke" <iljwamh1234567890@hotmail.com>
> To: <bf-funboard@blender.org>
> Subject: Re: (Landis misc stuff) [Bf-funboard] Reorganising the
> EditButtons
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:48:45 +1000
> Reply-To: bf-funboard@blender.org
>
> Hi,
> To flip the selected meshes or vertices, just use "s" then either "x",
> "y",
> or "z", then left-click to confirm.
> shift-d makes a copy of some of the elements in an object, like the
> mesh.
> (alt-d doesn't make a copy of the mesh - it links to the original)
> - Luke.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> ....did the old "shift-d/scale X" function change or is there a bug
> because I
>> simply cannot get me meshes to flip anymore?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Landis
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-funboard mailing list
>> Bf-funboard@blender.org
>> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-funboard mailing list
> Bf-funboard@blender.org
> http://www.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-funboard
>
>
> End of Bf-funboard Digest
>