[Bf-education] Bf-education Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4
Octavio Mendez
octavio at g-blender.org
Thu Dec 5 08:56:53 CET 2013
Hi Dolf
I will answer your questions between text:
Octavio, do you have students asking your for certification?
-> Yes, in my country there is this value idea about certification. The
average employer looks for certified people to hire, they think it adds
value to the future employee, so the student ask for certified training
programs in the school and training center.
And if so...
certification as what?
-> That is one of many things we must discuss here. I am aware we need
to establish a context around a certification in terms of what to
certificate: a blender software knowledge? (did he/she knows the basics of
how to use the tool?) an artistic talent? (can he/she create an art piece
or production project with the software?), a skill? (can he/she model or
animate or rig with blender?).
On one hand we see a lot of certified training programs (some office suite
certified training programs, by example) are limited to certificate that a
person knows how the software works, not how to solve problems working with
the software. On the other hand we have programs that certify the skills of
the person (like computer security training programs)
I think we must to discuss what is the best approach, maybe we can start
asking ourselves: what we look for in a certified student/person who will
hire?.
And... if so... then do you already give them a
certificate? We can all always give students a piece of paper that says
they completed a course in Blender that we taught...
-> As you say, we can always give students a piece of paper that says they
completed a course in Blender. Same thing happens on English schools, they
give a piece of paper that says they complete an english course, but there
are an standard tests that adds value, like the TOEFL or Cambridge tests.
This standard was designed to certify that all students have reached a
certain level of knowledge. That, in my opinion, is what we should do here,
create an standard.
and if you are a
certified trainer, that could already be worth a lot?
-> yes if you are a certified trainer that already worth a lot, but still,
there is no standard, you can teach, apply a test and evaluate
the knowledge you transmit to your students in one way, and other BFCT can
do it in other way.
--Personal note: if we are going to define a user certification, we all
must apply to become BFCT to be consistent with the goal.--
Is the Blender
foundation needed for this, or is it just a couple teachers getting
together?
-> I had the chance to talk with Ton about this on 2011. The position of
the Blender Foundation is they will no certificate. if it will be a user
certification, we must organize ourselves and create it as an open model in
a way all people can participate (not just institutions ). This
certificates will be issued by the trainer/training center, not by the BF.
It is not a need of the Blender foundation but the blender students and
schools. In short, far as I understand, BF will not create a user
certification but there is no objection and also encourages us to create an
standard test/exam and offer this to schools and colleges to certify
students with (Ton: please correct me if i get this wrong).
The effort here is to try to create an standard to do that, i mean, how to
evaluate the things a student are learning in russia about VFX with
blender, and the things a student from UK are learning will produce similar
results and give trust to someone who wants to hire a certified user.
There are a lot of topics about the interaction with the Blender foundation
we will must discuss as things go (example: it will be a business or
donation model to contribute the BF with this? etc.)
Is it a good idea to do Blender certification (blender basics/advanced), or
Skill based certification (3d modelling/animation)?
-> i think we need to discuss on list about pros and cons of a blender
certification vs skill based certification.
And... how to test this? Some basic 3d knowledge can be done multiple
choice, but I guess there will always be a part that's
"artistic/subjective".
-> this too :)
Greetings!
Octavio.
Dp;f
2013/12/4 <bf-education-request at blender.org>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Blender user certification (Guillermo J Ferro P)
> 2. Re: Blender user certification (Dolf Veenvliet)
> 3. Re: Blender user certification (Marcelo V)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 08:51:27 -0430
> From: Guillermo J Ferro P <gferrop at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-education] Blender user certification
> To: Blender Educators and Trainers <bf-education at blender.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAN_rJ3J2b50PgZV=ptktRJQr=Fx8qJ=
> PMa5hL_3aQbbgJof8KA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am very interested
>
>
> 2013/12/4 Octavio Mendez <octavio at g-blender.org>
>
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > Time ago we discuss about a blender user certification on this list, and
> > sadly we do not reach any result. Since then, has been growing interest
> in
> > the subject by blender students, schools, and training centers.
> >
> > I would like to bring back the topic and see if we can work together on
> > that:
> >
> > Ton suggests not to put the efforts on the certification itself, but on
> > the creation of standardized tests (like "Basic modeling") and offer this
> > to schools and colleges to certify students with.
> >
> > He suggest to: "you can name it very smart in a way people perceive it as
> > official, but the certificate would still be officiallly issued by the
> > school itself. It is what Adobe does for photoshop for example."
> >
> > Who are interested? :)
> >
> > --
> > *Octavio A. M?ndez S?nchez*
> > octavio at g-blender.org
> > www.g-blender.org
> > 044 473 1034906
> > @octagesimal
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-education mailing list
> > Bf-education at blender.org
> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 15:38:11 +0100
> From: Dolf Veenvliet <dolf at macouno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-education] Blender user certification
> To: Blender Educators and Trainers <bf-education at blender.org>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAAyPmkHUoexBgJzUj1u5rfyni1zOZaHFwfzNGmpy9QjcPQoA2Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This discussion has indeed been going, on and off, for multiple years.
>
> Piotr: you talk a lot about the tasks you set your students, but not their
> exams... and perhaps that is what this discussion is about? How do you
> decide your students finished the course successfully, or failed?
>
> Octavio, do you have students asking your for certification? And if so...
> certification as what? And... if so... then do you already give them a
> certificate? We can all always give students a piece of paper that says
> they completed a course in Blender that we taught... and if you are a
> certified trainer, that could already be worth a lot? Is the Blender
> foundation needed for this, or is it just a couple teachers getting
> together?
>
> Is it a good idea to do Blender certification (blender basics/advanced), or
> Skill based certification (3d modelling/animation)?
>
> And... how to test this? Some basic 3d knowledge can be done multiple
> choice, but I guess there will always be a part that's
> "artistic/subjective".
>
> Dp;f
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Guillermo J Ferro P <gferrop at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I am very interested
> >
> >
> > 2013/12/4 Octavio Mendez <octavio at g-blender.org>
> >
> >> Hello everyone!
> >>
> >> Time ago we discuss about a blender user certification on this list, and
> >> sadly we do not reach any result. Since then, has been growing interest
> in
> >> the subject by blender students, schools, and training centers.
> >>
> >> I would like to bring back the topic and see if we can work together on
> >> that:
> >>
> >> Ton suggests not to put the efforts on the certification itself, but on
> >> the creation of standardized tests (like "Basic modeling") and offer
> >> this to schools and colleges to certify students with.
> >>
> >> He suggest to: "you can name it very smart in a way people perceive it
> >> as official, but the certificate would still be officiallly issued by
> the
> >> school itself. It is what Adobe does for photoshop for example."
> >>
> >> Who are interested? :)
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Octavio A. M?ndez S?nchez*
> >> octavio at g-blender.org
> >> www.g-blender.org
> >> 044 473 1034906
> >> @octagesimal
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bf-education mailing list
> >> Bf-education at blender.org
> >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-education mailing list
> > Bf-education at blender.org
> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 07:13:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: Marcelo V <mv_email at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Bf-education] Blender user certification
> To: Blender Educators and Trainers <bf-education at blender.org>
> Message-ID:
> <1386169987.21769.YahooMailNeo at web160105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am a bit disappointed with the current certification process.
>
> I applied and I first had missing information. Fair enough, I followed the
> suggestions sent by Willem (thanks for the attention BTW) and created a
> webpage with all required information.
> Next I submitted twice the eForm. However, despite I got a "Thank you"
> webpage after committing the application, I did not get the auto reply
> email.
> ?Therefore, I tried for the third time but submitting with a different
> email address. At this time I did get an auto-reply email.
>
> However, I never heard back about this last attempt (posted as
> vamarc at gmail.com).
>
> Anyways... I tried to follow the process but maybe the server or the tools
> are buggy or people are too busy.
>
> Any improvement in this area would be welcome. In some countries even
> things like to sell "banana on the streets" we need certifications.
>
>
> Regards,
> Marcelo
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dolf Veenvliet <dolf at macouno.com>
> To: Blender Educators and Trainers <bf-education at blender.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 9:38:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bf-education] Blender user certification
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This discussion has indeed been going, on and off, for multiple years.
>
> Piotr: you talk a lot about the tasks you set your students, but not their
> exams... and perhaps that is what this discussion is about? How do you
> decide your students finished the course successfully, or failed?
>
> Octavio, do you have students asking your for certification? And if so...
> certification as what? And... if so... then do you already give them a
> certificate? We can all always give students a piece of paper that says
> they completed a course in Blender that we taught... and if you are a
> certified trainer, that could already be worth a lot? Is the Blender
> foundation needed for this, or is it just a couple teachers getting
> together?
>
> Is it a good idea to do Blender certification (blender basics/advanced),
> or Skill based certification (3d modelling/animation)?
>
> And... how to test this? Some basic 3d knowledge can be done multiple
> choice, but I guess there will always be a part that's
> "artistic/subjective".
>
> Dp;f
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Guillermo J Ferro P <gferrop at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I am very interested
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >2013/12/4 Octavio Mendez <octavio at g-blender.org>
> >
> >Hello everyone!
> >>
> >>
> >>Time ago we discuss about a blender user certification on this list, and
> sadly we do not reach any result. Since then, has been growing interest in
> the subject by blender students, schools, and training centers.
> >>
> >>
> >>I would like to bring back the topic and see if we can work together on
> that:
> >>
> >>
> >>Ton suggests not to put the efforts on the certification itself, but on
> the creation of?standardized tests (like "Basic modeling") and offer this
> to schools and colleges to certify students with.?
> >>
> >>
> >>He suggest to: "you can name it very smart in a way people perceive it
> as official, but the certificate would still be officiallly issued by the
> school itself. It is what Adobe does for photoshop for example."
> >>
> >>
> >>Who are interested? :)
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>Octavio A. M?ndez S?nchez
> >>octavio at g-blender.org
> >>www.g-blender.org
> >>044 473 1034906
> >>@octagesimal
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Bf-education mailing list
> >>Bf-education at blender.org
> >>http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Bf-education mailing list
> >Bf-education at blender.org
> >http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-education mailing list
> Bf-education at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
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> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-education
>
>
> End of Bf-education Digest, Vol 96, Issue 4
> *******************************************
>
--
*Octavio A. Méndez Sánchez*
octavio at g-blender.org
www.g-blender.org
044 473 1034906
@octagesimal
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