[Bf-committers] Proposal for clarified VFX Reference Platform Support
Dalai Felinto
dalai at blender.org
Fri Jan 21 14:27:19 CET 2022
Hi,
I believe Blender should stick to the VFX platform.
After all that has been said, I think it may boil down to making a decision
between immediate known benefits and strategic uncertain long-term benefits.
* On one hand we have tangible benefits for some users that we know of
(e.g., Python scripters will benefit from Python 3.10).
* On the other hand sticking to the VFX platform can pay off in the long
run with making Blender more likely to be integrated in large pipelines.
One of the long-term goals for the Blender project, is to welcome more
contributions by the industry. And I think investing on that vision trumps
the immediate benefit the latest Python (or other library) brings to
Blender.
To have studios contributing to Blender is a two-way street. And Blender
sticking to the VFX is the least the Blender project can do on its end. I
look forward to see this and other efforts in that direction, such as
onboarding, code documentation, infrastructure and development practices.
To move this forward I'm setting up a call with the other bf-admins next
week. We will report back afterwards.
Thanks everything for the contributions,
-Dalai-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dalai Felinto - dalai at blender.org - www.blender.org
Blender Development Coordinator
Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Op vr 21 jan. 2022 om 10:02 schreef Sergey Sharybin via Bf-committers <
bf-committers at blender.org>:
> Hi,
>
> Jason, taking the LTS release schedule, Python/other libraries release
> schedule, and VFX platform release schedule, I am not really sure how to
> achieve this in practice. Not even sure it brings more solutions than
> problems.
>
> Ray, our paths might be different but the goal is the same: minimize gray
> area. Define what is really important for the project, and work towards
> that. It might not be something the Platform is aimed to solve, but is
> something Blender will find important.
>
> Best regards,
> - Sergey -
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sergey Sharybin - sergey at blender.org - www.blender.org
> Principal Software Engineer, Blender
> Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 12:51 AM Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers <
> bf-committers at blender.org> wrote:
>
> > I don't think any of the major vendors (nor us) will build openvdb
> > with a wonky blosc version that will give compatibility issues, point
> > is neither the danger of using a "wrong" blosc version nor any other
> > mention of file compatibility is in the platform (but it is in the
> > openvdb documentation) So my argument was about not referring to
> > the platform as an authority on file compatibility, since they aren't.
> > The choice to follow the platform or not is a completely separate
> > choice.
> >
> > I'm desperately trying to get us to a point where rather than an
> > uncommitted, "we follow some things, not others, kinda depends on our
> > mood, and if we like to make a random exception or not, also here are
> > some arbitrary commitments to things that platform doesn't even seem to
> > do" to a crystal clear:
> >
> > -These are the things we do
> > -These are the things we don't
> >
> > I'd rather give users like you solid hard disappointment you can
> > count on, than comforting false hope that will disappoint. Guaranteed
> > platform adherence would have been acceptable as well, but that does
> > not appear to be the direction we are appear to be leaning.
> >
> > My objective is to minimize/eliminate the "gray zone" blender has
> > been in for the last few years regarding the platform, VFX Platform in or
> > out, I'm cool either way, but we have to pick a team and communicate it
> > clearly to our users.
> >
> > --Ray
> >
> > On 2022-01-20 12:40 p.m., Scott Wilson wrote:
> > > I'm sort of out of the loop, but has there been communications with the
> > VFX Reference Platform recently? I think that some of the issues brought
> up
> > such as build flags for OpenVDB could be resolved. I know that as a
> > pipeline TD in a studio, having all of the vendors on the same page about
> > all attributes of the build environment makes my life much easier. So, I
> > throw what little say I have into getting Blender and the platform
> aligned.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 11:22 AM Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers <
> > bf-committers at blender.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > While I do not mind the practical nuts and bolts of this
> > > proposal at all, I do mind the language, referring to the
> > > VFX Platform as something worth looking at regarding file
> > > or platform compatibility is unfortunate.
> > >
> > > The Platform as is makes no attempt to manage file compatibility
> > > throughout the pipeline, the big-ticket items in this space such
> > > as USD and/or MaterialX aren't even in the platform, the things
> > > that are in the platform, such as OpenVDB that have _severe_
> > > file compat issues if build incorrectly do not even have a footnote
> > > about it. The only logical conclusion here is, the VFX Platform
> > > is a not authority to appeal to regarding file compatibility, so
> > > best not to.
> > >
> > > As for platform compatibility, the messaging in the VFX Platform
> > > is confusing, for linux it declares a glibc version, for macOS it
> > > declares a deployment target, so far so good, but then for windows
> > > it does none of these things, and just recommends a compiler and
> SDK
> > of
> > > which neither determine the OS versions the resulting code can
> > > run on, the inclusion of python 3.9 indirectly implies windows 8.1
> > > is their minimum windows deployment target, but honestly I'm unsure
> > > if even they are aware of this implication.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see the proposal move more into concrete direction:
> > >
> > > > Blender does NOT follow the VFX platform.
> > > >
> > > > - Blender aims be compatible with operating systems VFX Platform
> > compatible software will be able run on.
> > > > - blender aims not to break file compatibility for 3rd party
> > formats such as EXR, VDB, Alembic: files exported from Blender should be
> > usable in other software used in the pipeline, and vice-versa.
> > >
> > > The last item
> > >
> > > > - Not to break external render engines
> > >
> > > Is just not something I think we can we can practically commit to,
> > > these are generally linked directly to the python shared libs,
> > > and bumping python versions will definitely break most if not all
> > > of them.
> > >
> > > To put an end to having to have this conversation every year, I'd
> > > like to break the loop with the following text:
> > >
> > > > Major blender releases will ship with the latest major python
> > version available during BCON1 in its development.
> > >
> > > My proposal
> > >
> > > - Clarifies our stance on the VFX Platform
> > > - Doesn't appeal to an authority the VFX Platform clearly lacks
> > regarding file compat.
> > > - Somewhat commits to running on the same platforms as the VFX
> > platform (as much as it can be deduced from the platform, they are vague
> > about it, hard to make any solid commitments here).
> > > - Makes the python version blender will ship with predictable.
> > >
> > > Note that personally, I may or may not approve of the direction
> being
> > > taken here, but judging from your internal discussions this seems
> to
> > be
> > > the way we want to go as a project, in which case clear language is
> > > undoubtedly better than vague commitments that sound nice but may
> > > set unrealistic expectations.
> > >
> > > --Ray
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