[Bf-committers] *** RESPECTFULLY NOT SPAM *** Weekly Development Notes Followup

[Dalai Felinto]

Hi,
This kind of communication indeed doesn't belong in the report and the
image we want to project.

Everyone contributing to Blender is to uphold a professional behavior. And
we should work to make sure slips like this don't happen again.

Thank you,
-Dalai-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dalai Felinto - dalai at blender.org - www.blender.org
Blender Development Coordinator
Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands


Op vr 24 sep. 2021 om 14:48 schreef Monique Dewanchand via Bf-committers <
bf-committers at blender.org>:

> I think Ryan's remarks raises some valid points.
>
> Putting words like "sigh" in your reports, to me, is not very professional.
> As developers we all have had our moments of frustration and sometimes
> unwillingly express those.
> I hope we can forgive Bastien for this.
> However I would expect from a Development Coordinator to notice these types
> of things and act upon them. But perhaps my expectations are incorrect.
> Is someone responsible for the quality of 'official' development
> communications (like release notes etc )?
>
> In my experience, years and years ago, when there were only 2 devs
> receiving some minimalistic contributions from Blender, I loved
> contributing to Blender.
> I found the overall vibe and attitude very pleasant, there was respect,
> room for good discussions and constructive criticism. This vibe rapidly
> changed when Blender started to hire more and more devs. (More)Processes,
> rules and regulations made their way into Blender development, all for good
> reasons, but at the expense of respect, good discussions and constructive
> criticism.
> Contributing to Blender Development had become frustrating for me, so I
> stopt and decided to contribute in a different way (teaching Blender and
> working on add-ons).
>
> In recent years I've noticed quite an improvement in the way blender
> developers are communicating with "contributors". Is it perfect? Not yet.
> Is there room for improvement? Yes, but it's definitely better than what it
> used to be. I do think that contributors are still very valuable for
> Blender development so I hope that blender devs, coordinators and
> contributors take a bit more care in how they cooperate and communicate.
>
> kind regards,
> Monique
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:42 PM Thomas Dinges via Bf-committers <
> bf-committers at blender.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > I am not Dalai, but as Developer Community Coordinator I will try to
> > answer.
> >
> > 1) As Ankit already mentioned, the message was likely marked as spam by
> > some e-mail filter. Nothing more :)
> >
> > 2) Bastien replied to your mail and explained the situation and the
> > reason for his note in the report. He also apologized and confirmed that
> > it was not meant as a personal attack.
> >
> > The Blender developers do their best to communicate professionally and
> > friendly. In my (round about) 7 years as contributor, in my free time, I
> > always felt welcome.
> > There were of course times, when I disagreed with the decisions made by
> > module owners or the admins. At times this was a little bit frustrating.
> > But the communication was always professional and friendly.
> >
> > We can of course argue about remarks such as the "(sigh...") in a
> > report, but Bastien explained the situation and I don't see a personal
> > attack in there, only a little bit of frustration and a remark that is
> > human.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Thomas
> >
> > Am 24.09.2021 um 07:59 schrieb Ryan Inch via Bf-committers:
> > > Thanks for your quick reply Bastian.  My email wasn't a prompt to be
> > > defensive but a request for clarification from Dalai as the Blender
> > > Development Coordinator.  Depending on what Dalai says, I'll follow up
> > > with your points if need be because this is not about me but how
> > > community developers are treated.
> > >
> > > Dalai, as Blender Development Coordinator, one specific request from
> > > the Epic MegaGrant was to make Blender more professional.  I and other
> > > community devs and members do not think this kind of notation is
> > > professional.  It also disincentivizes engagement between core devs
> > > and community devs who do consider this a type of attack.
> > >
> > > So again, my question to you as the Blender Development Coordinator is
> > > 'In what case is it acceptable for a developer to put something like
> > > "Spent time on re-explaining/re-investigating T9599 (sigh…)." in their
> > > official weekly development notes?' And now, in what case is it
> > > acceptable to mark an email asking about such an issue as spam?  I was
> > > under the impression that personal attacks were not tolerated?
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > > On 2021-09-21 06:00 AM, bf-committers-request at blender.org wrote:
> > >> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:20:11 +0200
> > >> From: Bastien Montagne <montagne29 at wanadoo.fr>
> > >> To: Ryan Inch via Bf-committers <bf-committers at blender.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** SPAM *** Weekly Development Notes
> > >>     Followup
> > >> Message-ID: <c6100f56-9813-aebe-01ae-5e3b70f578bd at wanadoo.fr>
> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > >>
> > >> Hi Ryan,
> > >>
> > >> Not sure how you see that as a personal attack? Fact is, I think
> > >> spending half a day on something does earns it a note in the weekly
> > >> report.
> > >>
> > >> And yes, I was frustrated spending time having to demo the issue after
> > >> explaining it's cause/source, finding again the exact use case
> > >> triggering it, rebuilding both branch and master to ensure it was
> proper
> > >> example, etc. We all have (tight) schedules and I was frustrated this
> > >> was considered high priority enough to take it over more pressing
> > >> matters for Blender 3.0 upcoming BCon2.
> > >>
> > >> I know that expressing personal frustration may not be a good idea,
> but
> > >> that does not in any case make it a personal attack, sorry if you felt
> > >> it like that.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Bastien.
> > >>
> > >> On 9/21/21 8:49 AM, Ryan Inch via Bf-committers wrote:
> > >>> Hello Dalai,
> > >>> I missed reading Bastien's weekly notes last week or I would have
> > >>> brought this issue up then.  In Bastien's notes for Week 425 - 09/04
> > >>> to 09/10, one of his notes is this: "Spent time on
> > >>> re-explaining/re-investigating T9599 (sigh…)."
> > >>>
> > >>> In what case is it acceptable for a developer to put something like
> > >>> this in their official weekly development notes?  I was under the
> > >>> impression that personal attacks were not tolerated?  (And for the
> > >>> record it's D9599 not T)
> > >>>
> > >>> Ryan
> > >>>
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> > >>
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