[Bf-committers] Libraries source code

[Dalai Felinto]

Hi Ray,
Thanks for your reply.

The "it is scattered all over the place, and is fragile" is my personal 
opinion, and what motivated me to write the email.

The propose to self-host was indeed from Ton. But I didn't want to add 
the weight of his opinion on something that could first use some 
clarification.

My proposal to move forward is for the Building module to write down in 
the wiki the current rules for:

* When is a library hosted in `//extern`
* When is a library maintained in `svn lib`
* When should the libraries be updated
* The differences between `make deps` and `install_deps.sh` and why we 
maintain both
* The current reasoning to not self-host the svn libraries sources

Having this clear would have also helped the recent "VFX Reference 
Platform" discussion.

I can gladly help out with the writing if no else from the "Platforms, 
Builds & Tests" module can pick that up.

On 13-12-2020 18:49, Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers wrote:
> Seems like the reason has moved from "it's scattered all
> over the place, that's a bit fragile" (technical reason,
> which I will happily share/defend my views on) to
> "because I want it for political reasons" (where not a
> single technical argument will change your mind)
>
> In the future it's probably best to be upfront where a
> desire comes from rather than having it masquerade  as a
> technical issue and hope no-one calls you on it.
>
> --Ray
>
> On 2020-12-13 9:29 a.m., Ton Roosendaal via Bf-committers wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The reason is to protect software freedom in general. I don't like it that for building Blender you are forced to use commercial sites offering code. It would be different if we use established GNU approved platforms.
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria.en.html
>>
>> I would find it really a positive statement if we copy all external bundles to blender.org and build from there.
>>
>> Nothing urgent though, it's politics :)
>>
>> -Ton-
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Ton Roosendaal - ton at blender.org - www.blender.org
>> Chairman Blender Foundation, Director Blender Institute
>> Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands
>>
>>
>> On 10/12/2020 16:02, Ray Molenkamp via Bf-committers wrote:
>>> I'm unsure what this would achieve beyond making the lib update process more frustrating than it already is?
>>>
>>> The deps builder we have its singe purpose is to facilitate the building of our SVN libs nothing more nothing less, its target audience is essentially 3 people (the mac/linux/windows platform maintainers) we share the script with the world since that's the spirit of opensource, but we offer very little (if any) support on it. Developers are advised to use the SVN libs and most distro's have their own build infrastructure for dependencies already. If you want to build all deps using our script on your own, good on you, we certainly won't stop you, but the script is aimed at a very narrow build environment (ours) with a very narrow use-case (our svn libs) it *cannot* be and *will not* be the end all and be all build script for all possible environments and all possible distributions.
>>>
>>> Having the source to all deps on our server would bring very little (actually just an extra burden) to the party, keeping that context in mind, what is the problem you are trying to solve?
>>>
>>> --Ray
>>> On 2020-12-09 8:14 a.m., Dalai Felinto via Bf-committers wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> At the moment the source code to build the libraries required by Blender is scattered everywhere:
>>>>
>>>> * github
>>>> * sourceforge
>>>> * own projects sites
>>>> * archived pages on the web (e.g., http.debian.net for the bzip)
>>>>
>>>> For the complete list see: `build_files/build_environment/cmake/versions.cmake`
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there a reason for Blender to not host a copy of the compressed source files? Given that we depend on almost 40 different libraries, it seems a bit fragile to count on them be online forever.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The zip/tar.gz, ... packages could be stored in: https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-blender/trunk/lib/source
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> -Dalai-
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Dalai Felinto - dalai at blender.org - www.blender.org
>>>> Blender Development Coordinator
>>>> Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bf-committers mailing list
>>>> Bf-committers at blender.org
>>>> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bf-committers mailing list
>>> Bf-committers at blender.org
>>> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bf-committers mailing list
>> Bf-committers at blender.org
>> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-committers mailing list
> Bf-committers at blender.org
> https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers

-- 
-Dalai-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dalai Felinto - dalai at blender.org - www.blender.org
Blender Development Coordinator
Buikslotermeerplein 161, 1025 ET Amsterdam, the Netherlands