[Bf-committers] FM 2.8 Proposal : Fracturing, Cache, Rigidbody
martin.felke at t-online.de
Mon Feb 26 17:59:03 CET 2018
Am Montag, den 26.02.2018, 15:29 +0100 schrieb Brecht Van Lommel:
> Am I understanding correctly that you are proposing to keep all fracture
> data within one Object datablock? And then there would be a "Convert"
> button on the modifier that generates multiple objects, which are then no
> longer influenced by the modifier? If so that makes sense to me. Even if
> many objects were faster, procedurally generating datablocks is not
> supported by Blender design currently and trying to tack it on would cause
Yes, I want to have something like a collection of mesh islands over
either one shattered Mesh Datablock, or even outsourcing the "generated"
data to a geometry cache, which is written to an Alembic file for
example and being read back by something similar like the meshsequence
cache modifier. Each of those islands should be an "Item" in the cache.
And the rigidbody data should be "attached" per island like custom data
is with vertices, edges, loops, polys. I find the custom data concept
quite interesting for that usecase as well.
If it is ok to keep one regular (DNA) stored Meshdatablock as fracture
result in the background, being "overwritten" by new fractures,
also each poly could carry a custom data layer with an mesh island
index, means each poly knows to which island it "belongs".
With the help of this minimal storage one could at load time build a
runtime collection of mesh islands in the modifier or more generally
spoken, in a geometry cache component.
Additionally to that, since constraint buildup is relatively fast, those
dont need to be stored at all anymore, but being rebuilt at load time.
Alternatively, to having all in one Object, is it planned to have
something like Collection Modifiers ? where a collection of objects is
being treated as an object itself and could be fed into the modifier
stack and where the modifier emits a modified collection
(which is treated as one object / ID again ?)
Something similar to this could be some kind of "Pack Geometry"
functionality, which not just joins all into one mesh, but keeps
separate object's settings separate and individually changeable ?
Like some "container" object ?
But i guess just making a fractured mesh with island info as poly layer
could be the most straightforward approach.
The "Convert" button in fact exists already for the FM, making each
meshisland a separate object. (to simulate the objects in other blender
builds for example)
> It's just a bit confusing because you are saying "cross-object constraints
> will be managed by a dedicated constraint-only Modifier" for example. Are
> we talking about actual object datablocks, constraints and modifiers? Or
> just something that happens internally and doesn't affect any actual
> datablocks? Or both, where the "Convert" button generates objects with such
> constraints or modifiers, and if it's all within one object it happens
Sorry for the confusion about "cross - object constraints". Those are a
relatively new FM feature and allow to "glue" islands together across
nearby / adjacent fractured objects. Currently an extra object
referencing a group of to-be-glued objects thru the FM is responsible to
just maintain constraints between islands of the fractured objects
within that group. I mentioned this for the sake of completeness only,
this is advanced functionality. (Here one object respectively
one FM can hold many islands and many constraints, in the current
design.) The "dedicated" modifier is just a "normal" FM with special
settings in this case.
I think I should further go into more advanced functionality only after
the basic concepts are clear / being agreed on. But OTOH i also wanted
to make sure the "basic" design is "powerful" enough to be able to deal
with the more advanced things which will build upon it.
> I suggest to not talk about Python modifiers or more generic modifier cache
> systems here. This is already a very complicated topic, just integrate it
> with existing physics modifier and cache designs and do any bigger changes
Ok, agreed :) It is a very complicated topic. I just tried to think out
of the box since the existing Pointcache cannot dynamically grow and
shrink (to my understanding, the total number of "Points" is fixed atm)
and this would allow other advanced features like dynamic fracturing
I have a "customized" solution for this currently in the FM. The FM
basically stores a sequence of meshisland lists currently, which is
extended at each fracture event. Furthermore each meshisland stores its
own "motion history" (locations, rotations) per frame (as long as the
island exists, e.g. it disappears if it is fractured further.). The
problem with this is that i currently duplicate unchanged mesh islands
across several fracture "states" and this eats a lot of RAM.
It might not be absolutely necessary to integrate everything in one go,
but again I wanted to make sure not to "forget" something important in
the initial design, which may backfire later.
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Martin Felke <martin.felke at t-online.de>
> > Hi, first attempt to get my thoughts / ideas sorted on how to move on
> > with FM in 2.8.
> > FM 2.8 Proposal : Fracturing, Cache, Rigidbody
> > ==============================================
> > Fracturing:
> > ----------
> > Main Goal is to avoid 1000s of real objects, this still causes serious
> > lags in blenders viewport. Should this be already fixed we could just
> > use those and we are almost done.
> > We need to decompose the base or previous modifier mesh to islands,
> > with an Operator for example. Now we have an Execute operator which
> > “invokes” the modifier and suppresses modifier eval afterwards again.
> > Result of the fracture operator is a non-persistent Mesh (pre-fractured)
> > or a non-persistent Mesh Sequence (dynamic). We have the possibility to
> > apply to a single mesh object or to convert to multiple Mesh Objects.
> > It should be kept as a modifier for (nondestructive ?) interaction with
> > the stack or nodes, else it would be “nailed” to the top of the stack,
> > no modifiers before could be placed before it.
> > Optionally we could have a more general pack operator which packs a
> > group of objects and constraints (similarly to how it happens already
> > with FM external mode)
> > Cache:
> > -----
> > The fracture result should be kept in the RAM (Geometry Cache). It also
> > could directly be written to a persistent Cache File.
> > Alembic could be used as cache file / disk cache for geometry. Those
> > per-modifier cache files could be packed into the blend, so the user
> > doesn’t need to take care not to “forget” files when sharing the
> > blend.
> > It would be needed to feed the alembic file backend differently with
> > data. It needs to be avoided that mesh gets fully dumped again and again
> > each frame, because this will unnecessarily bloat the file size.
> > Instead, we should treat each island like an object and store only
> > transforms over time.
> > A Fracture Modifier should hold a cache data block similar to the mesh
> > sequence cache modifier. So each of those objects and / or modifiers
> > would be linked to a disk cache file.
> > During fracturing, the initial state will be written to a geometry cache
> > file.
> > During simulation, another file will be created and the initial state
> > from simulation will be modified, by writing transform info.
> > For the case of dynamic fracture, the cache needs to be able to extend
> > or shrink (modify) the initial state. At each fracture event we need to
> > add a new state to some event sequence. But it needs to be avoided to
> > repeat redundant info as in writing the same geometry twice.
> > Generally, we need to make the storage more dynamic, so the cache can
> > grow and shrink, so instead of just storing an array of "points" per
> > frame,the cache could be holding just a sequence of items where each has
> > its own frame range.
> > To ensure quick lookup then (state of cache at frame x) we could keep an
> > interface similar to the old point cache.
> > Going over all elements and linear search is just too slow with high
> > element count, so jumping in cache and even sequential playback could be
> > too, if we don’t know what is the “next” changeset.
> > We could build up a lookup structure which works like an array of
> > frames. This references the items according to whether this frame is
> > part of their frame range.
> > Building that structure could be done at sim start and at addition /
> > removal of items in dynamic sim too. This helps to ensure fast playback
> > and jumping at the expense of some overhead in dynamic simulations. But
> > simulation generally is expected to be slower than cache playback, so
> > the overhead should not be the main cause of slow performance.
> > Each cache item should be able to hold any type of “custom” data. so the
> > same cache structure could be used for any type of simulation purpose.
> > Blenders Custom data Layer system could be applied to each of those
> > cache items. It allows to append already “simple” datalayers like int,
> > float, string, bool. Optionally we could attempt to extend it to hold
> > pointers to arbitrary structs. We should be able to register new custom
> > data types at runtime too, and expose the cache to python. (so addons
> > could read / write from / into it)
> > For example, the Rigidbody Object structure should be treated as custom
> > data layer for the cache. Each island would be an item and index into
> > the rigidbody layer.
> > Rigidbody:
> > ---------
> > The rigidbody world would reference all objects which have caches with
> > rigidbody custom data in it, with Fracture Modifiers referencing their
> > cache datablocks, and their items.
> > Access would be like : World -> Objects -> Caches per Object -> Items ->
> > RigidBodyObjectLayer[Item.Index]
> > The constraints should be managed by the modifiers as well, where we
> > have “inner” and “outer” constraints then, the latter are cross-object.
> > The cross-object constraints will be managed by a dedicated
> > constraint-only Modifier. Each of those constraints should hold
> > references to rigidbodies (or cache items, since a rigidbody is just a
> > layer then) of the same or of the other participating objects.
> > The old "regular" Object based rigidbodies shall be removed, they can be
> > replaced by single-island modifiers.
> > Rigidbody as modifier becomes movable in the stack / among nodes, and is
> > not nailed to final / deform / base.
> > Additional functionality like autohide and automerge could become
> > separate modifiers, unless they also need to access cache details.
> > Further Thoughts
> > ----------------
> > Should EACH modifier have a cache component, which is either being
> > passed down the stack, and can be accessed externally too ?
> > like ob.modifiers[“mod”].cache.layers.xxx ?
> > A generic script modifier would be nice (where a certain python class
> > could be attached to), could cooperate with the exposed cache component
> > (read from input cache, write to output cache)
> > Caches per modifier would also allow to stack multiple fracture
> > modifiers without performance penalty (of continuous refractures)
> > (would work in the old style DNA / DM storage too, but many places in
> > the code assume there is only one FM, like the duplicated rigidbody
> > code)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-committers mailing list
> > Bf-committers at blender.org
> > https://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> Bf-committers mailing list
> Bf-committers at blender.org
More information about the Bf-committers