[Bf-committers] Blender 2.8 - priorities reconsideration proposal (revised)

[Julian Eisel]

Hi,

Parts of the new tool-system may indeed be a can of worms. So agree,
it might be better to postpone it.

I don't think the part of the top-bar with the operator redo settings
should be postponed though. I've already done most of the work, and I
think it's a small task to get the rest done. At the same time,
outcome could be great.
To not spam this thread with top-bar discussion, I created a separate
thread in bf-interface
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-interface/2017-November/000272.html.
I will try to get further testing & feedback to see how far it is from
being done.

It also bothers me to still not see a proper mention of the keymap
revamp. "Workspace specific keymaps" would only be (minor) overrides
to the default keymap per workspace. Ton pointed out the keymap
changes may be part of templates. However, I think it really is its
own project.
Remember, redesigning our default keymap is unlikely to happen before
3.0 if we fail to deliver it for 2.8. At the very least, we should
discuss if this is acceptable or not.

Cheers
- Julian -

On 20 November 2017 at 20:30, Ton Roosendaal <ton at blender.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There's a mixup of two bars here.
>
> We still get a bar to select scene, layer, workspace, mode, but the 2nd bar with operator redo, and tool buttons (operator widget system) gets postponed. A revision of the tools and operator system is going to be a can of worms and hard to do well. Needs more design time, a reason we postpone it.
>
> Note: nothing gets cancelled - it's also a productivity workflow trick (for developers). Get first something done and finish it entirely. Not as in 'coder says he's done' but as in 'happy and productive users'. I think that's the gist of Agile Development :)
>
> -Ton-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> Chairman Blender Foundation, Director Blender Institute
> Entrepotdok 57A, 1018 AD, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
>
>> On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:01, Aaron Carlisle <carlisle.b3d at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am really surprised to see that the top-bar is being dropped for the
>> initial release as it seems to me that most of the work is done or close to
>> it with only a couple of design issues to be fixed.
>>
>> Also, I do not see any mention of the asset engine. Is this still a target
>> or has this been dropped?
>>
>> Aaron Carlisle
>>
>> Picture taker | Bit cruncher | Pixel pusher | Document writer | Artist
>> Project administrator for the Blender 3D Documentation Project
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Ton Roosendaal <ton at blender.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dalai,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the update. The first version was a bit confusing indeed. (as
>>> if some targets got cancelled)
>>>
>>> I fully agree on keeping the focus as narrow and feasible as possible. The
>>> targets for 2.8 are very intimidating and complex. Let's now first finish
>>> all current ongoing projects and make it ready for daily use.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Ton-
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
>>> Chairman Blender Foundation, Director Blender Institute
>>> Entrepotdok 57A, 1018 AD, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
>>>
>>>> On 20 Nov 2017, at 17:56, Dalai Felinto <dfelinto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *[Note: The first version I sent was a bit unclear, so this is the one to
>>>> be considered instead.]*
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> While we are strong in our goal to release Blender 2.8 next year, we kept
>>>> adding project targets for it at a growing pace. Now it is the time to go
>>>> back and reconsider our priorities.
>>>>
>>>> Blender 2.8 is not ready for production work yet. This makes the timing
>>> not
>>>> right for the development to drive enough interest from everyone. And it
>>>> doesn’t make sense to pursuit the new Blender without our users and
>>>> volunteers to push the design of core components further.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore we are postponing as current 2.8 technical targets:
>>>>
>>>> * Top bar
>>>> * Manipulators
>>>> * Tools
>>>> * Workspace specific keymaps, add-ons.
>>>>
>>>> Manipulators and tools will still be around as an API for add-ons. So
>>> users
>>>> can still experiment with custom manipulators, facemaps and the tool
>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> That also means we can focus our strength on wrapping up the following
>>>> projects:
>>>>
>>>> * Finish workspaces (move object mode to workspace and polish interface)
>>>> * Collections, layers (user interface and groups)
>>>> * Eevee (feature polishing, performance)
>>>> * Drawing engines (Workbench engine)
>>>> * Modes (move settings to workspace, final overlay settings design)
>>>> * OpenGL offline render
>>>> * Multi-window (OpenGL non-shared resources manager)
>>>> * Static ID Override (replace proxies)
>>>> * Asset/preset browsing
>>>> * Templates (built-in support as with 2.79, none distributed by default).
>>>> * Grease pencil objects (draw engine, tools)
>>>> * Dependency graph improvements + copy on write
>>>> * Dynamic overrides
>>>>
>>>> Once these projects are on track (or finished), the postponed targets
>>> will
>>>> come back. This also depends on how many people can work on the projects.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Dalai
>>>> --
>>>> blendernetwork.org/dalai-felinto
>>>> www.dalaifelinto.com
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