[Bf-committers] Eevee and BGE proposal.

tristan porteries republicthunderbolt9 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 19 21:55:51 CEST 2017


Hello,

The last conversations were about data managing with the new depsgraph, i
want to share some arguments:

In the BGE the data are designed to be frequently updated (even an update
per frame), the BGE modify less data than blender: polygons and vertices
are not added to meshes, the material node trees don't change, textures
don't change. At the end the majority of the data update affect values of
existing data, no creation or deletion.

Because of these notes, i don't think using the depsgraph will be a good
advantage in the BGE without complexify the code and slow it a bit. Leaving
all dynamic is more appropriate for a game engine in my opinion.

Interactive mode will not be impossible in futur as it is a part outside
the BGE as BGE is the shared part between blenderplayer and blender. The
interactive mode can be something in blender (as editor) checking data and
synchronize them to the BGE data.

I hope i'm sufficiently obvious.

Tristan.

2017-07-18 9:39 GMT+02:00 Dalai Felinto <dfelinto at gmail.com>:

> Hi Tristan,
>
> I mean the update of the values since they can be animated. And the
> update of the world probe when the animated nodetree is of a world
> material.
>
> > "And a node list for your new system."
>
> If you are referring to [1], the UBO is created storing a pointer to
> the original socket data. You won't get to use it without using the
> Depsgraph (and its copy-on-write system). Or some clever
> implementation in the BGE creating your own local version of the
> nodetree.
>
> Anyways if you don't show up at 10am (in 20 minutes) we will be
> expecting you at 11am at #blendercoders.
>
> [1] - https://developer.blender.org/rB2a489273d7e2354a9f1afc321286
> 3ff4b463cf86
>
> Regards,
> Dalai
> --
> blendernetwork.org/dalai-felinto
> www.dalaifelinto.com
>
>
> 2017-07-17 22:04 GMT+02:00 tristan porteries <republicthunderbolt9 at gmail.
> com>:
> > Hello Dalai,
> >
> > Sorry, i want to clarify your question: When you talk about material
> > update, it's the update of node values or totally something else ? Also
> the
> > BGE will never modify the node tree of a material so we don't have to
> > manage the material creation. At the end the only think we need currently
> > for update is a GPUMaterial or GPUShader and a node list for your new
> > system.
> >
> > About probes, we already developed in UPBGE planar and cube probes, i
> hope
> > we could adapt them. For the irradiance/grid probe i have to check
> deeper.
> >
> > Tristan.
> >
> > 2017-07-17 18:43 GMT+02:00 Dalai Felinto <dfelinto at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Hi Tristan,
> >>
> >> Can you elaborate on how do you plan handling updates for the Eevee
> >> materials and probes?
> >> Right now this all goes via the depsgraph.
> >>
> >> Perhaps we could talk Tuesday morning (10am or 11am CEST) on IRC with
> >> Sergey to get this sorted out once and for all.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Dalai
> >> --
> >> blendernetwork.org/dalai-felinto
> >> www.dalaifelinto.com
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-07-14 15:29 GMT+02:00 tristan porteries
> <republicthunderbolt9 at gmail.
> >> com>:
> >> > Hello Dalai,
> >> >
> >> > The proposal is to use Eevee in BGE, it looks simple but it requests
> >> > refactors in the BGE sources.
> >> >
> >> > The usage of draw engine based on Eevee help to not interfere the
> eevee
> >> ->
> >> > blender side, the idea of common API can be forgotten and replaced by
> a
> >> > little number of duplicated functions if it is too complicated in
> futur.
> >> >
> >> > I think that the debate about interative mode is for an other
> proposal,
> >> > implementing eevee in BGE will not exclude the interactive mode, doing
> >> the
> >> > both in same time can be very messy.
> >> >
> >> > Tristan.
> >> >
> >> > 2017-07-11 15:37 GMT+02:00 Jacob Merrill <blueprintrandom1 at gmail.com
> >:
> >> >
> >> >> Step 1 in such a scenario, is a realtime switch for rendering and
> >> running
> >> >> the game loop.
> >> >>
> >> >> What about getting evee running, and upgrading viewport with new
> logic
> >> >> system, and after evee is integrated, integrate same logic systems
> into
> >> >> BGE?
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe Bullet3 or even pyBullet based?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Jul 11, 2017 5:54 AM, "Dalai Felinto" <dfelinto at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi Tristan,
> >> >> > Thanks for writing this. Sergey and I just finished looking at it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The proposal is missing a big picture. What is it trying to
> achieve?
> >> >> > It seems to simply try to bring Eevee materials into BGE, without
> any
> >> >> > extra benefit.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If that’s the only goal of this project, I would at least expect
> it to
> >> >> > not interfere with the rest of Blender. For example, the idea of
> >> >> > changing Eevee to accommodate to a common API seems not ideal.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That said, we have an opportunity to do something bigger. Which
> would
> >> >> > be to integrate interactivity with the rest of Blender. That’s a
> >> >> > bigger undertake for sure, but I was under the impression that this
> >> >> > was the original idea for after 2.7. It’s not clear if this was
> >> >> > considered, or why was it dismissed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> > Dalai and Sergey
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > blendernetwork.org/dalai-felinto
> >> >> > www.dalaifelinto.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2017-07-02 12:23 GMT+02:00 tristan porteries
> >> <republicthunderbolt9 at gmail.
> >> >> > com>:
> >> >> > > Hello everyone,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I invite the people working on Eevee and 2.8 (Campbell, Dalai,
> >> Bastien,
> >> >> > > Clement, Mike and few other) to look at the following proposal
> for a
> >> >> > merge
> >> >> > > of Eevee into the BGE.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/
> 1dpC2zCVD54yCGwNZFu_WM82uUAGI_
> >> >> > s5-GmlgMLOcfYY/edit?usp=sharing
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Feel free to comment on the document, also an experimental branch
> >> named
> >> >> > > ge_eevee is available on https://github.com/UPBGE/blender.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Tristan.
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > Bf-committers mailing list
> >> >> > > Bf-committers at blender.org
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