[Bf-committers] Proposal to switch both master and blender2.8 to c++11 be default.

Sun Nov 20 23:36:04 CET 2016

S o just follow up after discussion in private IM with Martijn.

There is no real urge to change anything in master in this context. So
better just to leave things as is for now. Saves frustration of folks who
will start getting compilation error and will save our time looking into
those issues.

What we think is reasonable to do is to have new C++11 builds in the
"Experimental" section of buildbot. This will let us to test such builds
early on without affecting possible releases and builds of master before we
release 2.80. Being in "Experimental" section should also be clear for
users who goes to builder.b.o and who will likely have question which ABI
to download.

To make "Experimental" section more clear we can promote MSVC 2015 builds
as official and retire 2013 builds.

Not sure yet whether new buildbot builds better be master of 2.9 branch tho.

Guess that makes all parties happy here?

On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 10:17 PM, Martijn Berger <martijn.berger at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This cost is a one time thing we will incur anyway.
>
> Users should not really experience anything except maybe having blenders
> choices line up with the python official version better.
>
> The main benefit it having one environment in which to build 2.8 and if we
> ever have to do a 2.7<next> we can do it in that environment as well.
>
> C++11 / C11 have been the default mode for our main compilers for some
> time. Apple actively warns with each invocation of the compiler that uses
> libstdc++.
> And even Debian is transitioning.
>
> I get that there are always arguments for being conservative, but for the
> MacOS platform i think it is better to switch and also reap the benefits of
> better rebuild-able libraries.
> For all platforms i think it would be to be consistent. We default to C++11
> in the case of gcc 6 and above ( likely due to that compiler defaulting to
> c+11 ) But for clang 3.6 and above this is not done. For any MSVC 2012 or
> better this argument would also hold.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 9:58 PM, Sergey Sharybin <sergey.vfx at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > So is it all for the locally-compiled Blender (meaning, both releases and
> > buildbots stays the same as is)?
> >
> > Keep in mind, while it might be fine on Windows/OSX you'll have some
> major
> > problems on Linux (users will lat least need to re-compile all
> > dependencies). And sure enough they'll run into weird compilation /
> linking
> > errors (shall i here note that the guy who proposes to bump something
> must
> > become responsive for the users communication and figuring out their
> > problems caused by the bump? ;)
> >
> > Still either i'm missing something, or so far the motivation behind such
> a
> > change is because we can do it. What are the benefits for users? What is
> > the problem you're solving here? Why to rush such a thing?
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Martijn Berger <
> martijn.berger at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Mike Erwin <significant.bit at gmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 8:45 AM, Martijn Berger <
> > > martijn.berger at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The only mayor downside i see is that we would effectively drop OS
> X
> > > 10.8
> > > > > and earlier.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eek, dropping 10.6, 10.7 and 10.8 was not on our Blender 2.7x
> roadmap.
> > > This
> > > > would prevent 2.79 from running on lots of Macs that could handle it
> > (GL
> > > > 2.1 capable GPUs). Those same Macs are stuck with older GPUs so
> > deciding
> > > to
> > > > drop them for Blender 2.8 was easier.
> > > >
> > > We never roadmapped dropping WIndows XP. That still has more users then
> > > 10.7 and 10.8 combined judging form our google analytics.
> > > 10.9 will soon be dropped from the official support roster by Apple.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Most people are running latest OS & Xcode and it is annoying to not
> be
> > > able
> > > > to type "make full" and run. By default I agree this should work. No
> > > hoops!
> > > >
> > > It is not just about that. Most compilers and other packages are
> > defaulting
> > > to it. Compiling binary python stuff for use with the official blender
> > > makes you jump through more hoops then most people can. Not many people
> > > have a version of python compiled with msvc 2013 on windows when it is
> > > officially deprecated and the official python release is with 2015. A
> > > similar argument can be made for almost any package for python that
> > > contains native code on MacOS they all use libc++ as that is the
> default.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Can we keep the ability to build for 10.6 thru 10.8 using an *older*
> > > > Xcode/SDK? I keep a drive with 10.9 & older Xcode, but am not a build
> > > > system guru.
> > > >
> > > Sure. release is not build on a machine that is kept up to date. It is
> > > build on OS X 10.9 with code 6.3 and a clang version compiled by Jens.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > For our next release we could have [Mac OS 10.6, 10.7, 10.8] and [Mac
> > OS
> > > > 10.9 & newer] downloads. That gives us a rough count how many people
> > > > actually use the older system.
> > >
> > > Yes, we can also have windows XP and windows ME, 98 support. it is
> just a
> > > question of adding some extra hands. If we care about user numbers we
> > might
> > > want to port to android soon.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike Erwin
> > > > musician, naturalist, pixel pusher, hacker extraordinaire
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > With best regards, Sergey Sharybin
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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-- 
With best regards, Sergey Sharybin