[Bf-committers] Fw: blender as ui for game engine

[Diego Borghetti]

Hi there,

I think that sometimes you need to take a step back and look at what
you are trying to do or want achieve.

I know that I have been out of the blender development for quite a
long time but we still use blender as a core part of our system and I
still follow it and check the commits, the problem is that I don't
have enough time to develop like before, anyway... a couple of points
that I would like to make.

First, you are trying to do a big refactor to the core of blender but
you don't know about WM_exit or what G.background is about. That is
not bad but you should really get into the blender code, learn it,
develop it, help with bug fix and then start to talk about refactoring
or better, present a project, target and why it's a good idea.

Second. "Create something in blender and press Play to build it in
your platform". That sounds something like Unity and don't get me
wrong, we use Unity at work and it would be really nice if Blender can
do the same, but both are complete different project and have a
complete different target (.. try to create a model of anything with
Unity).

Third, "My idea was to create a BUI and extend that using a plugin
system". That is really nice and have nothing wrong, but, it's your
idea, nothing else. That don't mean it's the best for blender or the
best way to do something. You see it as a great idea and other people
see it as something bad, that apply to almost everything, people agree
or not on ideas and it's fine. Plugins are great for some software and
really bad for others (take a look at compiz and the "fantastic"
plugin system and what happen to it).

Finally, we use a couple of different tools at work. We use blender to
create all the content and from there, we export it to vrml, collada,
fbx and open inventor, so far it works great. Yes, sometimes it's a
pain until you get the right options for the script and all that, but
at the end it works. We even drop blend files into unity and work
directly from there, as soon the blend file change unity reload it and
everything is there. My advice is target each problem separate and
found the best tools to do it, and when you try to push something into
the blender development community, take a step back and try to look at
it as part of the community and not only your own motivation.

Yes, you maybe disagree with Ton point of view and that is fine. The
reality is that Blender has been out there for 20 years. It's a
fantastic application and it's a fantastic code to work with.


On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 8:03 PM, hewi jupama <hewi at jupama.org> wrote:
> How I love this discussion, you (may) know me.
>
> Allow me to again write you too many lines for people not to have time to read ;)
>
>>> What part of Blender's C core is neglected exactly?
>
> How funny you are asking.  have you ever looked at the creator.c file, the first and most basic file from blender, where it all starts:
>
>         if (G.background) {
>                 /* actually incorrect, but works for now (ton) */
>                 WM_exit(C);
>         }
>
> auch, that is when I say +1 for me.  And literally, this is just the start!  The blender C core code is riddled with these comments and hacks and it needs lots and lots of refactoring.  If you don't agree or see that, mmmh ... ? (don't know how to put that nicely so I wont put anything :)
>
>>> However the purpose of the "Blender" project is to:
>>> "build a free and open source complete 3D creation pipeline for
>>> artists and small teams."
>
> You are however absolutely right, the blender foundation wants to provide "a tool for ... " It is very important and a real privilege to see blender is sticking to these goals.  Many projects fail because they divert from their initial goal!
>
> We are discussing the preparation of the blender source code for 2020, to make it extendable and easily maintainable. To make it stick to the current conventions and guidelines on coding and project management (e.g. the ubiquitous right hand rule of XYZ Axis as a main source of sadness every time I open blender).   This, apparently, has nothing to do with current blender vision nor it's goals.  I see that now (I was involved very closely in the Blender Plugin System (BPS) discussion).
>
>>> we're not looking to prevent you from trying this.
>
> But you're not providing much of support either.  I was actually prohibited by Mr Roosendaal himself to discuss the BPS system on the developer irc channel "as it is not a supported project from the blender foundation".  Well, that makes me very sad.
>
>>> But *expecting* this will be accepted into master isn't reasonable
>
> Exactly wright and 100% correct yet again.  During Blender conference 2015, the question was raised why blender did not support these ideas or projects, Mr Roosendaals' reply was: "if you want that, you will just have to create your own community" (I am paraphrasing here, but it is essentially what he said)
>
> So basically, any discussion to refactor blender's source should be taken offline or elsewhere online, until the dev's and Ton see the benefit and are convinced of the relevance.
>
>> That's why I sent this email out to the group to see how many people would
>> be willing to support me while I did this but the response seems less than
>> luke warm, although I might be totally wrong.
>
> I had this idea already somewhere Dec 2013.  My idea was to create a BUI (blender user interface) and extend that using a plugin system.
>
> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI/BUI_BlenderUserInterface
>
> http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?319727-BUI-BlenderUserInterface&p=2528068&viewfull=1#post2528068
>
> My intention to achieve this is still not just luke warm but boiling hot.  Despite all the ice cubes that were thrown in my path.  I have source code ready to be reviewed.  I just need a place to drop it and we can start developing.
>
> If you look through the spaghetti source code and all it's circular dependencies, you will find the source is not that hard at all.  It of course needs time and a good initial set-up.
>
> throw me a private line "hewi at jupama.org" to discuss future evolution of this idea.  Discussing it here will only cool you down.
>
> KR, hewi
>
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-- 
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                       Diego