[Bf-committers] Lack of coordination and communication in Blender development

[Ounan Ding]

Hi,

If I correctly understand the topics discussed in this thread,
we are concerning how to convey design ideas to developers effectively,
and how to welcome new developers while keeping a high standards at the 
same time.

For both issues mentioned above, I would suggest to enforce automatic 
testings(including unit test and integration test).
(http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Source/Architecture/Automated_Testing)

As a beginner Blender developer myself,
Being able to pass testings at least can make sure my change to Blender 
works(this can be seen as a minimum requirements for volunteers), and it 
works with other subsystem in Blender(one may need helps from senior 
developers to achieve this standard).
Besides, to be able to fit in to a testing framework it also requires a 
structured implementation from a clear design.

All of these testings can happen automatically.
I think this can greatly speed up our review process.

For developers from other parts of Blender,
The testings can also convey design ideas in a more effective and stable 
way than other approaches such as documentation.
A documentation may be outdated but a set of working testing cases are not.
By automating the testing,
other developers can spend more time on optimizing the artistic workflow 
of a candidate commit.

I understand that enforcing testing can be a time consuming task in project.
But it may be considered for a long term plan.

On 8/17/2015 00:05, Ton Roosendaal wrote:
> Hi Kai,
>
> If you check the fracture modifier code review you can see how many hours went into reviewing it and taking it very seriously. It's really important to welcome new developers but it's also good to keep up a minimal quality standard for contributions.
>
> Scorpion81 choose to make things work in a way which we advised to not do. To add Fracture properly something bigger (and more complicated) has to be tackled first. That he is too inexperienced for. His code worked though, which made not accepting it not an easy decision.
>
> I don't see this as a lack of coordination. It's more of lack of time of the really competent people here on board to work on design topics.
>
> Also because of the enormously positive reviews on Siggraph - I'm quite concerned about how we can keep up our really high standards with volunteers and part time (new) developers. It's becoming a dilemma. We need to be welcoming to new people, but also maintain a really advanced project. That's one of the things to think over the coming months!
>
> -Ton-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
>
>
>
> On 15 Aug, 2015, at 17:39, Kai Kostack wrote:
>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I'm writing on my behalf but also on behalf of the Fracture Modifier developer scorpion81.
>>
>> We are a bit disappointed about how the redesign process of certain Blender internals evolves. There are a lot of communication channels but obviously they aren't used for core decision making or even for brainstorming. We feel being excluded from those important steps.
>>
>> It is looming ahead that we may ultimately be faced with a fait accompli, which - in my opinion - cannot be the goal of an open source development venture like Blender. We think it is not to early to criticize this practice for this very reason.
>>
>> Seeing increasingly frustration building up in dedicated developers who only try to make everything right and make their work fit into the current or future Blender design but get almost to none help on doing so makes me sad.
>>
>> The Blender development community needs to become more open and more inviting to new developers as it needs them. They are valuable! But they also need support, they need positive reinforcement, they need answers. Help them to make the impossible possible and not the other way around.
>>
>> I would love to make suggestions on how to immediately improve that situation but I'm not sure what way to go, it's certainly not easy to change old habits. I just know that something has to change.
>>
>> Maybe a weekly meeting per each module team (or working group, or task force) on whose module is currently being worked on at a central place like IRC would improve communication with new developers, stakeholders etc. - Other suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> -- Kai
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