[Bf-committers] Annoucement: Better Collada Exporter for Blender!

Sergey Sharybin sergey.vfx at gmail.com
Sun Oct 12 21:27:27 CEST 2014 

It's not a priority, it's just what Gaia (who used to be a collada
maintainer in blender) was interested in.

I know downsides of fbx. I just want to have confirmation from users that
exporting from blender to GE like unity indeed works as users expects it to.

On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Juan Linietsky <reduzio at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sergey Sharybin:
>
>    Glad to know the top priority of Blender in regards to Collada is to
> export correctly to Second Life. You are starting to make me think if I'm
> not really wasting my time here.
>    The point of supporting Collada, in my view, is not about competing
> against other formats such as FBX (which is the industry standard), but
> simply being able to output as much information as possible to game engines
> in a format that is open. It doesn't matter if there is no gold standard.
> As long as the format exported is correct and the exporter outputs the
> necessary information, then it's the responsibility of those who produce
> the importers to ensure the data is read. Aiming for "compatibility" as
> priority should not be a goal.
>    This is especially useful for open source game engines and applications
> that can't use FBX due to license restrictions, or implementers who don't
> want to deal with such a complex format.
>
> Juan
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Sergey Sharybin <sergey.vfx at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Current state of collada in blender mainly ensures the exported file is
> > readable by SecondLife. Hence:
> >
> > - We're not really interested in screenshots, .blend file which is not
> > being exported correctly is needed instead.
> > - Can you provide .blend which doesn't export correctly to SL with the
> > current exporter and works with your exporter (and don't blame the wrong
> > collada implementation on their side, because there's basically no
> > gold-standard collada implementation and calling one implementation wrong
> > and another one correct is kinda pointless imo).
> >
> > Also, since you've mentioned unity in here it'll make total sense to get
> a
> > feedback from those who're currently uses fbx to export data from blender
> > to unity before claiming this is the best exporter.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 8:49 PM, Juan Linietsky <reduzio at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Ton.
> > >
> > >    If it makes you feel happier, I can manage to get screenshots of
> data
> > > exported with the plugin (with as many features as possible) being
> > imported
> > > in different applications by mid next week.
> > >
> > > Juan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Juan Linietsky <reduzio at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ton,
> > > >
> > > >      It does work, and has been tested with those DCCs, but the most
> > you
> > > > can get is geometry. Animation will mostly not work because it's
> > exported
> > > > as baked transforms and clips (which are game engine targeted
> > features).
> > > >      It has been used with Unity and got reports of users that got it
> > to
> > > > work with Cryengine and Amnesia engine. I do not have licenses for
> any
> > of
> > > > those engines myself and I'm a Linux user.  However, I'm willing to
> > work
> > > > with anyone from those companies to ensure they are importing the
> > format
> > > > correctly.
> > > >
> > > > Juan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Ton Roosendaal <ton at blender.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> To quote you:
> > > >>
> > > >> "This plugin is very battle-tested, and files written by it can be
> > read
> > > >> by most DCCs and engines. It's the most  efficient, complete,
> mature,
> > > and
> > > >> featured Collada exporter ever written for Blender."
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to know how you tested this statement. I would be
> really
> > > >> happy to see this to be true.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Ton-
> > > >>
> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> > > >> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> > > >> Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 12 Oct, 2014, at 19:27, Juan Linietsky wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Ton,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >     I really don't understand this reasoning at all.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >     Collada is completely useless as an exchange format between
> > DCCs.
> > > >> > Neither Blender nor Max, Maya or pretty much any other of those
> apps
> > > >> has a
> > > >> > properly working Collada importer. All are severely broken because
> > > It's
> > > >> not
> > > >> > a common use case. If the Blender community is worried about
> better
> > > >> > exchange of data with Max or Maya, then the proper way to go would
> > be
> > > to
> > > >> > write plugins for those DCCs that read and write Blender files and
> > > >> tries to
> > > >> > guess the best way to map data, not use crappy and ambiguous
> > > >> intermediate
> > > >> > formats like Collada or FBX.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >     This Collada exporter is meant to export for game engines. It
> > was
> > > >> > tested with many (including my own) and it works. If it doesn't
> > work,
> > > >> (and
> > > >> > as long as the exported format is correct) then it's the
> > > responsibility
> > > >> of
> > > >> > that game engine to read the format properly. It's wrong to expect
> > an
> > > >> > exporter to accommodate to bugs or implementation errors in third
> > > party
> > > >> > software. A bug must be reported to them if that is the case.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >     Also, your argument about user interest is wrong and It's easy
> > for
> > > >> me
> > > >> > to prove it. *NO ONE* that uses blender to export to game engines
> > even
> > > >> > knows the plugin I contributed exists. I know this because I get
> > > reports
> > > >> > from Godot users all the time that exported Collada from Blender
> is
> > > >> broken
> > > >> > or lacks features, then I point them to my exporter and problem
> > > solved.
> > > >> Now
> > > >> > the community became experts in pointing new users to not use
> > Blender
> > > >> > exporter and instead use mine, it's like a ritual.  This does not
> > > happen
> > > >> > with users that come from other DCCs with proper collada exporters
> > > such
> > > >> as
> > > >> > Max, Softimage, Maya, etc.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >     So, keep blaming others on the poor Collada support in
> Blender.
> > > You
> > > >> > are all fed up with it because you placed your trust int the wrong
> > > hands
> > > >> > (specially the choice of using OpenCollada, which I criticized
> back
> > > then
> > > >> > and Insisted it was extreme an unnecessary bloat, given my
> exporter
> > > does
> > > >> > the same and more in 0.01% the amount of code). It's not my fault
> > you
> > > >> all
> > > >> > keep taking the wrong decisions. I bring you a perfectly working
> and
> > > >> > feature complete Collada exporter, which I keep up to date and am
> > > >> > compromised to fix any bug that might arise. All I ask is help to
> > > >> integrate
> > > >> > it properly to Blender and I get shooed. Way to go!
> > > >> >
> > > >> >     Now the trend is to support OpenGEX, which looks really
> > promising
> > > >> and
> > > >> > I will love to implement it, but that format has the big drawback
> > that
> > > >> if
> > > >> > you want to test the correctness of an implementation, you have to
> > pay
> > > >> the
> > > >> > author of the format for a license of the C4 Engine.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >    This is not serious at all.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Juan
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Ton Roosendaal <ton at blender.org
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Hi Juan,
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The lack of interest is quite typical indeed. Collada might be
> not
> > so
> > > >> >> popular, but no user reported sofar any success with your code
> > > either,
> > > >> so
> > > >> >> it's not so strange it did not get a lot of attention from coders
> > > >> either.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> For me it then comes down to your presentation. Why not providing
> > > >> >> reference files (like game characters in Blender) that went 1:1
> to
> > > >> Maya or
> > > >> >> Max? Write docs, add examples?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> If you claim you have a great Collada exporter, then where are
> your
> > > >> test
> > > >> >> files, which cases did you test with Maya or Max? Who else uses
> it,
> > > and
> > > >> >> where can see examples of this working?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Would help a lot,
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> -Ton-
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> > > >> >> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> > > >> >> Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On 12 Oct, 2014, at 15:33, Juan Linietsky wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>> It's been in there since some months, and there seems to be no
> > > >> interest
> > > >> >> at
> > > >> >>> all in integrating it into Blender. (That version is also pretty
> > > >> outdated
> > > >> >>> by now.), so i'm maintaining it / hosting it on my own.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> https://developer.blender.org/T41071
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Daniel Salazar -
> patazstudio.com
> > <
> > > >> >>> zanqdo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> Sounds fantastic, why don't you put it in
> > > >> >> https://developer.blender.org/
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Thank you for sharing!
> > > >> >>>> Daniel Salazar
> > > >> >>>> patazstudio.com
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 6:12 AM, Juan Linietsky <
> > reduzio at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >>>>> Godot site is still under construction, but I've decided to
> > > publish
> > > >> my
> > > >> >>>>> Collada exporter by myself, given the lack of will to include
> it
> > > in
> > > >> >>>> Blender.
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> This plugin is very battle-tested, and files written by it can
> > be
> > > >> read
> > > >> >> by
> > > >> >>>>> most DCCs and engines.
> > > >> >>>>> It's the most efficient, complete, mature, and featured
> Collada
> > > >> >> exporter
> > > >> >>>>> ever written for Blender.
> > > >> >>>>> It supports almost every Collada feature and several more than
> > the
> > > >> >>>> built-in
> > > >> >>>>> one. Best of all, it's only 1400 lines of python code. No
> > > >> dependencies.
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> Feature list:
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>  - Export all supported nodes in the format:
> > > >> >>>>>     - Meshes
> > > >> >>>>>     - Lights (Omni, Directional, Spot and Ambient)
> > > >> >>>>>     - Cameras
> > > >> >>>>>     - Spline Curves (paths)
> > > >> >>>>>     - Armatures (mesh objects must be children of them).
> > > >> >>>>>     - Empty Objects
> > > >> >>>>>  - Bones with proper rest information.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Shape Keys
> > > >> >>>>>  - Combined Shape Keys + Armature deform.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Materials and Textures
> > > >> >>>>>  - Automatic handling of texture paths (conversion to
> relative).
> > > >> >>>>>  - Optional copying of textures on export.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Standard Extensions for double-sided geometry.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Standard Extensions for  normal maps.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Geometry Optimization (creation of indices and
> > triangulation).
> > > >> >>>>>  - Export Masks (By Selection, Layer or Object Type).
> > > >> >>>>>  - Full animation support for objects, bones and shape keys.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Support for exporting all clips in the scene, including
> shape
> > > >> keys
> > > >> >>>> via
> > > >> >>>>>  set-driven keys.
> > > >> >>>>>  - Baking of curves and constraints during animation export.
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> Screenshots:
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> [image: bc1]
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> [image: bc2]
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> Home:
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> http://www.godotengine.org/wp/better-collada-exporter/
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> Cheers!
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>> Juan
> > > >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >>>>> Bf-committers mailing list
> > > >> >>>>> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > >> >>>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > > >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >>>> Bf-committers mailing list
> > > >> >>>> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > >> >>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >>> Bf-committers mailing list
> > > >> >>> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > >> >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> Bf-committers mailing list
> > > >> >> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > >> >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > > >> >>
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Bf-committers mailing list
> > > >> > Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > >> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Bf-committers mailing list
> > > >> Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bf-committers mailing list
> > > Bf-committers at blender.org
> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > With best regards, Sergey Sharybin
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bf-committers mailing list
> > Bf-committers at blender.org
> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bf-committers mailing list
> Bf-committers at blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
>



-- 
With best regards, Sergey Sharybin

More information about the Bf-committers mailing list