[Bf-committers] Propose to reduce default feature set (*nix dev builds)

[AIBlender]

On 13/11/14 14:24, Campbell Barton wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 2:05 PM, AIBlender <aiblender at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 13/11/14 11:31, Campbell Barton wrote:
>>> This is mainly for Linux/BSD developers (releases remain unchanged).
>>>
>>> Its getting increasingly difficult to build Blender on Linux, (LLVM,
>>> ffmpeg, OpenCollada...) & these issue's can't always be fixed on our
>>> side.
>>>
>>> With newer developers a failed build with a cryptic error message
>>> (guys in #blendercoders can't even help with), is quite off putting..
>>>
>>> Proposing a limited feature-set by default with CMake (again official
>>> builds from blender.org are unchanged)
>>>
>>> https://developer.blender.org/T42569
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a bad idea, the whole point on dev builds is for us to spot
>> problems,
> it can also be for developers to start working on Blender.
>
>>   if you start turning off features just so things can compile
>> that is sweeping issues under the carpet.
> Buildbot's will continue to run with a complete feature set.
>
>> If it's getting hard to build
>> that means you need to work on build instructions/build system.  And if
>> its an upstream issue, communication needs to go upstream.  Being
>> demotivated if not a reason to start turning off fundamental features.
> You assume this is some laziness and if we wanted we could spend time
> to resolve issues like this.
> We regularly get new devs in IRC who pastebin strange errors we never
> saw before and its unlikely we can help them resolve.
>
>> After all ffmpeg and opencollada would not really be seen as option
>> features (by a lot of people), and the same can be said of llvm, and
>> they certainly are not optional when we need to spot bug/issues.
> This is just defaults, so builds are more likely to work out-of-the
> box. if you know what OSL/FFMPEG/FFTW/LLVM... etc mean and need them,
> you can of course enable them.
>
>>   I mean
>> what is next stop supporting Linux because its harder to build.  Well
>> you could just as easily make that argument for the entire windows build
>> system.
> Windows uses pre-compiled libs, While we do have problems reported its
> not normally related to using some unknown library version.
>
>>   It's more often than not the one with problems, so we should
>> obviously throw it in the canal yes? Obviously that would not be done.
>>
>> *marches off all huffy like*
>>
>> Terry Wallwork
>>
>>
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>> Bf-committers at blender.org
>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
>
>

Hi Campbell,

> it can also be for developers to start working on Blender.

Devs who work with Blender should be able to build the complete Blender if they can't it's not a good sign.

>Buildbot's will continue to run with a complete feature set.

Normal users care about Buildbot, people who build from source don't give a damn about buildbot.  I want builds from git source.  Which means its need to work with all features, I can't test if you lot decide to disable them and then complain when we turn them back on and can't get them to work because you don't understand how to fix an error.

>You assume this is some laziness and if we wanted we could spend time
>to resolve issues like this.
>We regularly get new devs in IRC who pastebin strange errors we never
>saw before and its unlikely we can help them resolve.

I don't assume laziness I assume that they are important features which need to be enabled and working for us to do our job of keeping Blender features working and being able to tell you devs a feature causes a seg fault or whatever other issues arise.

>This is just defaults, so builds are more likely to work out-of-the
>box. if you know what OSL/FFMPEG/FFTW/LLVM... etc mean and need them,
>you can of course enable them.

Why turn off fudamental features, if you don't need them a Dev can turn them off.  It does not sit right that someone who is potentially going to be a developer for Blender needs to start disabling features to get their compiles to work.  In the end devs are going to have to get their code to work with fully activated versions of Blender.  OSL shouldn't even be optional for example and would never be optional in a release build and I assume this means LLVM would not be either.

>Windows uses pre-compiled libs, While we do have problems reported its
>not normally related to using some unknown library version.

Can't comment on this one I don't use windows.  I do know Linux can have many different versions of libraries installed, so maybe make install deps install specific local version on Linux.

In the end all features have to work for release, so it should have to work with Dev builds, otherwise why have Dev builds at all.

As Devs with the understanding and the bigger brains , you are stuck with fixing problems with compile/build systems because, we normal types can't do it.  But if you value normal people being able to report bugs quickly to you about Blender features, then we need Blender to compile with all important features enabled out of the box, buildbot does not count as its too slow to update.  As I have said previous disabling features just mean that when they go wrong it takes longer for anyone to notice.



Terry Wallwork