[Bf-committers] Importing Assets: FBX VS Collada

Thu May 1 15:12:31 CEST 2014

hi,

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/open-3d-model-exchange-format-and-exporters-for-popular-software#home
http://opengex.org/

just came across opengex and then i remembered this thread.
sounds interesting and maybe some of you didn't know about it yet?

cheers,
horace

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Ton Roosendaal <ton at blender.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> OK I remember again :)
> This was for export only - saving Collada files in Blender with animation.
>
> I talked to Bastien, and he thinks importing fbx (character with
> animation) should be possible in not too much time. That only based on
> symmetrical testing first (blender exports, blender read back).
>
> FBX I/O for more advanced features then can be gradually added.
>
> BTW: I would like to remind everyone we also have a gamedev list, where we
> can extensively review everything related to coding for game artists:
>
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-gamedev
>
> That's also the list where the topics for the current Blender devs who
> work game creation related topics can be defined or confirmed. Including
> the GSoC student.
>
> -Ton-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
>
>
>
> On 28 Apr, 2014, at 13:54, Gaia wrote:
>
> > Both projects have been added to the Collada module.
> > -gaia-
> >
> > On 28.04.2014 13:29, Ton Roosendaal wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> BTW: what happened to this?
> >>
> >> We had Collada projects in 2011/2012 for animation:
> >>
> >>
> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Phabtar/Full_COLLADA_Animation_Support_for_Blender
> >>
> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Phabtar/Improve_COLLADA_constrained_animations_and_Morph_animation_support
> .
> >>
> >> -Ton-
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> >> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> >> Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28 Apr, 2014, at 12:41, Ton Roosendaal wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>> (every Autodesk software exports proper Collada!!)
> >>>
> >>> What I heard is the opposite. Natively Maya/Max support(ed?) only
> broken versions of Collada. You have to install the opencollada plugin to
> get things to "work". We use opencollada too, which is not in active
> development much. Bugs dont get fixed, and a call from Khronos to help
> fixing opencollada went unanswered.
> >>>
> >>> I'd be very curious to hear of a useful case (a real game project, in
> studio) that uses Collada to share a character model + rig + animation
> between two Autodesk programs, in a way that it writes and reads back in
> same program too. Just as good as FBX.
> >>>
> >>> Collada is a write-how-you-like format, that puts the conversion
> culprit in the hands of the people who code .dae readers.
> >>>
> >>> -Ton-
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> >>> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute
> >>> Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 27 Apr, 2014, at 22:51, Stefano Corazza wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm compiling the key responses on the topic, thanks for the great
> >>>> feedback/comments. Here also some reality checks.
> >>>> Sorry this is long but i'm trying to wrap the topic up.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Re: baking animation into meshes instead of using a rig:
> >>>>>> This might work for uses related*solely*  to still picture &
> animated film development, but it does pretty much strand the game
> development folks trying to use Blender as an option in >>their pipelines.
> Animated armatures with skeletally attached meshes being imported and
> exported into/out of Blender is kind of essential for this area of Blender
> use.
> >>>>>> Benjamin Tolputt
> >>>>
> >>>> Benjamin well said. Game development CANNOT use baked mesh animation.
> >>>> Also for film it is extremely inefficient and a memory sink. The
> future
> >>>> is a cross compatible rigging system. And it is already there for FBX
> >>>> and Collada (every Autodesk software exports proper Collada!!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> cool to hear that FBX maps to Blender well. If it's a sane format
> perhaps it is ok for it to become standard .. by Blender folks reverse
> engineering and documenting it :p . Even if it's >>not publicly specified
> by Autodesk I suppose they can't break it as then many apps with support
> for it would break .. unless they'd require always using updated versions
> of the SDK.
> >>>> Autodesk will NEVER release FBX SDK openly. I tried for years to
> >>>> convince them. They are a public company, so they cant do things that
> >>>> weaken their position in the industry. I talked to top management many
> >>>> times around this so make peace with it. Many apps DO NEED to upgrade
> >>>> FBX SDK every year or every couple of years as they are breaking the
> >>>> workflows at every release. Unity3d, Unreal, Maxxon, Mixamo, etc. we
> ALL
> >>>> UPGRADE FBX SDK every year of couple of years. The effort of reverse
> >>>> engineer FBX SDK in Blender every year is a waste of resources in my
> >>>> opinion when Autodesk already provides a FBX <-> Collada conversion.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> a lot of game makers use special engines with own formats and are
> >>>> quite happy to directly use Blender python for export.
> >>>>>> For game makers we should keep fbx to work too - but even better
> >>>> would be if they start directly supporting .blend files. I'd love to
> see
> >>>> efforts for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Every decent game engine supports FBX import/export. The time of
> >>>> import/export plugins is GONE. Even for Maya and Max it is getting
> >>>> harder and harder to find them.
> >>>> With EVERY game engine importing FBX and with a FREE and maintained
> FBX
> >>>> <-> Collada converter out there it seems obvious to me that Collada is
> >>>> the way to go.
> >>>> Especially when you have a import/exporter that is already 90% there.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Ton is asking why Mixamo does not create the new importer:
> >>>>>> Then why not do it for 2.7x? That import API is there since 2009.
> You
> >>>> are really welcome to pick up this development job and become a module
> >>>> owner for the Collada importer. It's the >>stakeholder principle. If
> you
> >>>> depend on a feature to work, you can also help it to be realized. If
> you
> >>>> - on the other hand - just seek for volunteering help, that's OK too.
> >>>> But I know Collada is >>incredbly impopular to work on. If you look
> for
> >>>> someone to be contracted for it... you could ask Gaia Clary. -Ton-
> >>>>
> >>>> A negligible fraction of our paying customers is using Blender. Why?
> >>>> Because you cannot reliably import assets from any other 3D
> >>>> package/service!! So we are not a "stakeholder" in the strict sense
> but
> >>>> would love to help the students/hobbyists/indie community that is
> using
> >>>> Blender. Since you changed Python version with 2.6x and later we would
> >>>> have to rewrite from scratch the plugin. We only have  a small team
> >>>> engineers so we can't do it. The best option is to finish the job on
> the
> >>>> current one that is almost there.
> >>>>
> >>>> What I can offer is test cases and QA service for the last 10% of the
> >>>> Collada importer/exporter fix (support of multiple meshes/bind poses)
> >>>> and Mixamo stocks as payment.
> >>>>
> >>>> If anyone is interested please contact me directly stefano at mixamo.com
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope you appreciate the passion for solving the problem and the
> amount
> >>>> of real industry information on the topic. Establishing a standard is
> >>>> not an easy job. But we are almost there!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Long life to Blender and the Blender community!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> Stefano
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> Bf-committers at blender.org
> >>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
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