[Bf-committers] Freeing the 3D manipulator.

[Gert De Roost]

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Ronan Ducluzeau aka "zeauro" <
zeauron at gmail.com> wrote:

> In practice, you always want to use an orientation relatively to something.
> So, global, local, view etc or custom transform orientation allows to do
> everything.
> We can rotate things after transformations instead of before.
> Custom transform orientation are there only since 2.46.
> And before, we could do modeling with shift numpad views.
> And now, we have view roll.
>
> I learned modeling in Silo, where free transform of the manipulator is
part of a modeling habit many prefer above constantly aligning the view.
Often one wants to, for example, move a face according to a direction not
easily captured by the standard orientations and often switching to Normal
mode and then tweaking (rotating) the manipulator a bit to get the right
direction is a fast way to do this, while retaining the viewpoint.


> I agree with Alberto Torres. It is a common and intuitive way to do it.
> The proposal is not talking about removing previous ways that I am
> feeling faster; so, I am not hostile to it if it is well designed.
>
> Blender users are used to the pivot point list. Manipulator should be
> located to the choosen pivot point.
> Position of manipulator in 3DView  is an immediate visual information
> about that.
> (Active Element, Bounding Box Center, Individual origins, Median Point).
> IMHO, changing the location of manipulator implies a new item in this list.
>
> I changed the patch to lock the pivot point pulldown at one possible
choice ("free") during setting and using the free manipulator, cause really
there is in these modes no possible real active influence on the pivot
point.


> In fact, 3D cursor pivot is already a kind of free position for
> manipulator.
> But it have several disadvantages that are only erased by add-ons.
> In fact, Enhanced 3D Cursor Add-on is really closed to your proposal.
>
> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/3D_interaction/Enhanced_3D_Cursor
> But the way, you have to create empties to make custom orientations : it
> is not very clean.
>
> And it doesnt support rotating (which is one of the main uses of this
proposal.


> A custom pivot type could be a way to memorize a location and if needed,
> to snap 3D Cursor to it.
>

I changed the Custom Transform Orientation system to store/restore also the
global location of the manipulator while in SET/FREE modes,
with the same result as what you propose.


> Instead of mixing orientations list with modes to edit it, I think that
> it would be better to always have a custom orientation item in the list
> and provide an icon to edit it, next to orientations list.
> A little bit like manipulate centers only icon next to pivot point list.
>
> I changed the Set mode into a button as you propose, but the edit will
start from whatever is the current orientation because thats the way it
will mostly be used.  You can always record a custom orientation and then
use that as a start for a manipulator edit.
The "Free" orientation remains, to facilitate a consistent use of the Set
button and also because it can be used to freeze the manipulator in place
quickly when changing selection.


More ideas and comments about this new implementation are more than welcome!


Gert.








> On 21/09/2013 09:15, Gert De Roost wrote:
> > Even when not mentioning lack of axis-constraining and snapping when
> using
> > 3d cursor for this, theres the fact that 3d cursor only enables
> > translating, and not rotating, of the manipulator...
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Hadrien Brissaud <hadriscus at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> My bad, with the current solution you indeed need geometry to base the
> >> orientation on - sorry for any confusion. I can see the handyness of
> freely
> >> translating the pivot point, too, but that's what the 3D cursor is
> supposed
> >> to be used for. Vanilla 3D cursor is clunky, admittedly...
> >> In Modo they use a combination of pivot point and orientation which they
> >> call "action center" and this combo is stored as a preset. Could be
> >> interesting to explore, although I think I like being able to set both
> >> independently.
> >>
> >> Hadrien
> >>
> >>
> >> On 21 September 2013 01:22, Gert De Roost <paleajed at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Hadrien,
> >>>
> >>> Then you should really explain me how...  As far as I know the
> "transform
> >>> orientations" just serves to store the orientation and revert back to
> it
> >>> later or use it on other elements.
> >>> Having the option to locate and rotate the manipulator in *any* state
> >>> (without affecting any geometry) you want during modeling with option
> to
> >>> snap to vert/edge/face/surface is something totally different.  If not
> >>> clear I can always make a short video?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Gert.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Hadrien Brissaud <
> hadriscus at gmail.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> are you aware this exactly can be done through the "transform
> >>> orientations"
> >>>> panel in Properties sidebar ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 20 September 2013 13:04, Alberto Torres <kungfoobar at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>> 2013/9/19 Hadrien Brissaud <hadriscus at gmail.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> adding custom orientations is already supported and easily
> >> accessible
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe is not so easily accessible if people keep coming with new
> >>>> solutions.
> >>>>> I suggest to have a key (with an equivalent and easy to discover GUI
> >>>>> element) to add a transform and set it right away, and pressing the
> >> key
> >>>>> again goes back to the previous setting. The key part can be easily
> >>> done
> >>>>> calling create_orientation(use=True) and delete_orientation(). On the
> >>> GUI
> >>>>> side, both usage and discoverability can be greatly improved. In the
> >>>>> "transform orientation" drop-down box in the header I would add a
> >> "add
> >>>>> custom" mode that basically calls create_orientation(use=True).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> DiThi
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