[Bf-committers] Blender on Windows - some thoughts about XP and32bit

Thu Dec 5 18:10:13 CET 2013

The last time I checked, vc11 created slower Blender builds than vc9 for
the game engine. Not that I would like to stick to vc9, but vc11 isn't
always faster. For a specific example, I've found OpenMP to be rather slow.
It's been a while since I last ran some tests, but I seem to remember the
difference being at least 20%.

--Mitchell Stokes

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Scott Petrovic <scottpetrovic at gmail.com>wrote:

> I think some data might help with the decision of whether to drop Windows
> XP. In the past two months, what is the percentage of Windows XP downloads
> for Blender. You should be able to use Google Analytics to figure that out.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexford at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Xp support should be dropped. Yes, for real, ASAP
> >
> > google.com/+Nkansahrexford | sent from Tab
> > On Dec 5, 2013 3:33 PM, "Jürgen Herrmann" <shadowrom at me.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > I too think we should drop XP Support asap. It would make it easier to
> so
> > > a clean transition to VS2012+ without the need of compatibility stuff
> > > within blender and its dependencies. Unfortunately I am not able to
> > > complete this atm because of lack of time...
> > >
> > > /Jürgen
> > >
> > > ----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----
> > > Von: "Thomas Dinges" <blender at dingto.org>
> > > Gesendet: 05.12.2013 15:19
> > > An: "bf-blender developers" <bf-committers at blender.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on Windows - some thoughts about
> XP
> > > and32bit
> > >
> > > I forgot to mention:
> > > We also only support 4 year old Mac OS versions (10.6 and above) and I
> > > am pretty sure that a 13 year old Linux is not supported either.  :)
> > >
> > > Am 05.12.2013 15:07, schrieb Thomas Dinges:
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > I want to share my opinion about some things regarding Blender on
> > > Windows.
> > > >
> > > > Please note: This is just my own opinion and no decision of any kind
> > has
> > > > been made here, so please don't panic. I'd like to get the opinion
> from
> > > > the other active Blender developers here.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Windows XP
> > > > ======================
> > > > Windows XP is 13 years old and even Microsoft itself drops support
> for
> > > > it once and for all in April 2014.
> > > > Sometimes we have bugs that only happen on XP, we have some (little)
> > > > special code in libraries such as OIIO for example to support XP....
> > > >
> > > > I think it's time to fade out the support for it. If a vendor (in
> this
> > > > Microsoft) doesn't even support its product any longer, why should a
> > > > third party do it? Also on a side note, XP has a lot of security
> holes
> > > > by now and they won't be patched. Microsoft itself expresses a clear
> > > > warning to users:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://news.techworld.com/security/3476295/microsoft-to-windows-xp-users-your-operating-system-is-a-major-security-risk/
> > > >
> > > > It should be easy to keep the binaries working, but on a support
> level
> > > > (Support in bug tracker, system requirements on blender.org) I
> suggest
> > > > to mark XP as "not officially supported any longer".
> > > >
> > > > 2) 32 bit
> > > > ======================
> > > > Dropping 32 bit for the Windows platform is nothing that should
> happen
> > > > soon, I guess some people still use Windows Vista and 7 with 32bit
> OS.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, if we take a look at our minimal system requirements:
> > > > http://www.blender.org/download/requirements/ , it mentions a Dual
> > Core
> > > > CPU with SSE2 support. Afaik all those CPUs support 64bit
> instructions
> > > > so no new hardware would be required, just a OS update.
> > > >
> > > > Also, there is always Linux, if people want to keep using older
> > hardware
> > > > but cannot afford an update to Windows 7/8.
> > > >
> > > > 3) Problems and chances
> > > > ======================
> > > > So, why do I bring up this topic? This has several reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Developer team
> > > > ---------------------------
> > > > Windows developer team is quite small already, compared to Linux/OS X
> > > > platform. I think we have some devs who develop on it but actual
> > > > platform maintenance (libraries, release builds) is done by 2-3
> people
> > > > max. And I don't think any of us is still using a XP/32bit setup.
> > > >
> > > > Personally I don't use 32bit systems for several years already, and I
> > > > would be very happy if someone could take over support for that. It
> > just
> > > > takes a lot of time to compile libs (like recently new OIIO/OSL) for
> 32
> > > > bit as well, fix (compile) errors, build 32 bit Blender, run some
> tests
> > > > and make sure it works all fine.
> > > >
> > > > MSVC 2008
> > > > ---------------------------
> > > > Using a 5 year old compiler is a bad thing. Not only can we get a
> much
> > > > better performance for (Cycles) Rendering for example, by using a
> > recent
> > > > version (like MSVC 2012), we could also get rid of some special code
> in
> > > > our libraries and patches which we added just to make it compile on
> > this
> > > > ancient compiler...
> > > >
> > > > MSVC 2012 is 20% faster in Cycles rendering afaik, so we don't talk
> > > > about some tiny numbers here.
> > > > So, why didn't we update yet? Lack of Windows developers and time.
> > > > Especially if we have to build/update *all* libs for both x64/32 and
> > > > make sure it runs smooth everywhere, this is just a boring task no
> one
> > > > really wants to do.
> > > >
> > > > Jürgen did a great job with his work on vc2012 libs, but I think he
> is
> > > > busy lately and some things need to be finished here still before we
> > > > could switch to this for official releases.
> > > >
> > > > Other applications
> > > > ---------------------------
> > > > Other 3D applications already dropped support for Windows XP and/or
> > > > 32bit: http://temp.dingto.org/SysRequirements.pdf
> > > >
> > > > This is of course no real reason, but a pretty clear indication.
> > > >
> > > > 4) Possible plan
> > > > ======================
> > > > Windows XP:
> > > > Blender 2.70: Last version with official support for Windows XP,
> after
> > > > the release we remove it from blender.org (system requirements info
> > > > text) and fade out support in the bug tracker.
> > > >
> > > > Blender 2.71 and above: Binaries will probably still run fine on XP,
> > but
> > > > it might break at some point.
> > > >
> > > > 32bit:
> > > > Blender 2.70: Add a notice on blender.org, that we highly recommend
> > > > using a 64bit operating system for best performance and best support.
> > > >
> > > > And again, I'd like to hand over the support for Windows 32 bit to
> > > > someone else, preferably someone who actually is *on* this platform
> and
> > > > can test issues as well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the long mail and I hope you don't misinterpret this. I am
> > > > very well aware of people living in poor countries who cannot update
> > > > easily, but at the same time we also have to look forward and stop
> > > > supporting ancient technology.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Thomas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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