[Bf-committers] Steam-powered Blender

Jan-Peter Ewert janpeter at valvesoftware.com
Wed Aug 28 10:00:36 CEST 2013


Hi Ton, 

We are currently working on improving the ingestion process for various file formats on our end, but that is indeed an entirely different topic. I don't expect an import path for .blend files to happen anytime soon, since these can do a lot more than what we will probably ever need. 

A more realistic goal would be to work on improved import and export paths between Blender and game engine files, including solid support for character rigging, weight maps, facial animation setups etc. Doing that within Blender plugins and making these available both to the general Blender community at Blender.org and via Steam seems to be the best way from my perspective to gain momentum.

I believe the right order should be to bring the current version of Blender to Steam soon, with a few useful existing plugins included in the initial download or as DLC, and to go from there in making people on Steam interested in Blender. That's something that could happen within the next couple of weeks within our regular release calendar.

Best, Jan-Peter



-----Original Message-----
From: bf-committers-bounces at blender.org [mailto:bf-committers-bounces at blender.org] On Behalf Of Ton Roosendaal
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 3:28 PM
To: bf-blender developers
Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Steam-powered Blender

Hi all,

The discussion is getting confusing for me. I'm not a Steam user (and probably most active devs here are not). It would be appreciated if people can explain requirements on that noob level.

To start with - most importantly - I was only discussing here Blender as a tool for game artists, for animation and game assets, for game modding. This discussion is not about Valve allowing Blender Game Engine binaries with .blend files to be offered via their store.

JP: that is correct, right?

Assuming it is correct - the issues we then talk about is just regular GPL compliant tools, add-ons, file I/O issues, and so on. I totally fail to see why Blender just can't be offered via their channels. Just copy the binary to start with!

Requirements for special I/O or addons or API integrations can each be discussed and evaluated individually. With or without, Blender already functions as game artist tool. We just will work on improving it in general, and on checking on (possible) additional support to help Steam platform users.

That also is a reply to Mango Jambo. Whether or not such an addon manager will be made shouldn't be related. We either do (and they might benefit) or we don't. It's a valid topic to review, but let's not include it in this Steam topic... it makes things complicated and we will lose momentum if we try to do everything at once.

Thanks,

-Ton-

--------------------------------------------------------
Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands



On 27 Aug, 2013, at 10:21, Jan-Peter Ewert wrote:

> Hi Ton,
> 
> Yes, I am willing to pick that up to the degree that I am able to, since I am not an engineer. Sorry for being silent for a while, preparing and doing GDC and Gamescom took up a lot of resources.
> 
> As for requirements, my feeling is that the first step is to get a version of Blender out there that makes people on Steam aware what Blender can do for them at the moment. I was thinking of publishing the current version with io plugins for Source, Unreal and Unity. 
> 
> As for devs, I have already received some very encouraging feedback from people on this list that I have not yet found the time to get back to, but you are right that we should absolutely push to get people from Steam that are not yet Blender developers on board. 
> 
> Best, Jan
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bf-committers-bounces at blender.org 
> [mailto:bf-committers-bounces at blender.org] On Behalf Of Ton Roosendaal
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:33 PM
> To: bf-blender developers
> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] Steam-powered Blender
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think we have two issues to solve to make it more organized. Hopefully Jan-Peter from Valve is willing to pick that up?
> 
> - Requirements
> Define a well written list of end-user expectations of what should needed, prioritized. Try to separate the requirements related to the valve platform and data I/O, from the ones related to Blender using in general.
> 
> - Find the devs
> Advertise this well in Steam channels to insipre developers there to join efforts on it. Valve could play a role in it too... maybe giving out some rewards for it or so?
> 
> I think this should be handled in the Steam community first. Issues like APIs, dependencies, license compliancy, technical designs to comply our releases, then can be handled here or one of other channels (IRC).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Ton-
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Ton Roosendaal  -  ton at blender.org   -   www.blender.org
> Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute Entrepotdok 
> 57A  -  1018AD Amsterdam  -  The Netherlands
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 Aug, 2013, at 3:05, Jeffrey H wrote:
> 
>> A suite would probably do better overall than individually maintained 
>> tools. A suite allowing a two-way dev environment would provide the 
>> best workflow and would likely gain and keep support from the 
>> community (as opposed to creating a dozen different tools to fill holes left by others).
>> Having a team develop these tools as a whole (whether Valve, the 
>> community or a third party) would keep them compatible with each 
>> other and up-to-date. I think this would work out well while we're 
>> talking about Source and its collection of command line tools, but 
>> what about other dev kits? Do other workshop dev kits support the same source files (obj/tga)?
>> 
>> Regarding the tool suite: what would we need in this suite to allow 
>> two-way data transfer between SDK and Blender?
>> -An importer/exporter for models and related data (mesh, skeleton, 
>> animation). This would essentially be SMD/DMX tools with an importer.
>> -Importer/exporter for materials and textures -Possibly an 
>> interchange with Hammer's plain-text format (vmf)?
>> 
>> This is essentially my thought process from this afternoon. Hope I'm 
>> not dreaming to big here.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, SheeEttin <sheeettin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Additionally, on the other end of the pipeline, I'd love some 
>>> support for decompiling/importing existing compiled MDLs. Currently 
>>> the only solution is to use third-party tools (MDLDecompiler, 
>>> StudioCompiler) which aren't reliable. Making assets like hats for 
>>> TF2 requires working on top of the existing model, and that's kinda 
>>> hard to do without the model.
>>> 
>>> I'm really excited for this whole thing, and I'm willing to help any 
>>> way I can.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 4:28 AM,  <brookesy at internode.on.net> wrote:
>>>> I have been a long time user of blender for source modding, and 
>>>> have been through all the add-ons that have been released. The most 
>>>> recent SMD/DMX tools by Varsity (of facepunch) are by far the best, 
>>>> and are really easy to use. The part that most people have trouble 
>>>> with in source is the compilation process, so you would want to 
>>>> have an automatic system for generating a .qc through the blender 
>>>> addon (like the one used by GUIstudiomdl, for instance) for new 
>>>> users. The .smd/dmx files and the .qc could be uploaded together 
>>>> and compiled remotely (and locally for testing). This would 
>>>> maximize useability for new modelers I think.
>>>> 
>>>> Another major feature that would be very useful for modders is the 
>>>> ability to create source materials for their models directly within 
>>>> blender. At the moment there is no VTF support, so we use tga or 
>>>> png and convert them externally. Blender already has a good 
>>>> material system but being able to generate a .vmt from your 
>>>> material settings would be great as well. At least the basics like 
>>>> phong/cubemap and normals. These two features would immediately 
>>>> allow people who already model with blender to make models straight away.
>>>> 
>>>> Hell I have a whole list of stuff but I digress.
>>>> 
>>>> I'd be up for providing training for modelers to use the tools, I 
>>>> have already been making tutorial videos and such on youtube, but 
>>>> the majority of my input has been streaming to online classrooms 
>>>> via Livestream. I would love to help out in any way I can, be that 
>>>> testing or providing some service to the community. My support is 
>>>> behind providing Blender with the SMD/DMX tools already installed 
>>>> and automatically maintained. Great that you guys are even 
>>>> considering this!
>>>> 
>>>> - Abe (Black_Stormy)
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jeffrey "Italic_" Hoover
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