[Bf-committers] Collada importer/exporter kickout

Ton Roosendaal ton at blender.org
Wed Jan 11 11:06:38 CET 2012 

Hi,

You can count on plenty of people jumping on a patch if you publish it. Don't understimate the power of having many eyes looking. If it requires more expertise or IO experience, Campbell is around to check on it too.

-Ton-

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ton Roosendaal  Blender Foundation   ton at blender.org    www.blender.org
Blender Institute   Entrepotdok 57A  1018AD Amsterdam   The Netherlands

On 10 Jan, 2012, at 23:39, Juan Linietsky wrote:

> Heh I wanted to emphasize that it works, but I seriously do need to work
> with someone familiar with writing blender and/or blender import plugins in
> C++ to do it, who can take my code and adapt it to Blender. It should be a
> short task for someone with that experience.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Juan
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com <
> zanqdo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> That sounds *very* exciting and *very* appropriate for our needs :) OC ads
>> too much weight to Blender's big ass
>> 
>> Daniel Salazar
>> 3Developer.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Juan Linietsky <reduzio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I didn't realize a collada exporter was so important. If so..
>>> 
>>> I have a *very* *tested* and *very* *small* collada importer in my
>>> middleware stuff (~3k lines of C++ code). It supports pretty much
>>> everything (models, skeletons, materials, cameras, lights, morphs,
>> any-axis
>>> orientation, animations with matrices or curves, etc).
>>> 
>>> Given it's very small size and non-dependency on OC, it's very easy to
>>> understand and *very easy to mantain*. It pretty much just ignores
>>> conformance of input files and just attempts to grab wathever data it
>> needs
>>> so *compatibility is extremely high*.
>>> 
>>> It's not a standalone library, but it's separated enough that *if someone
>>> knowledgable of blender internals *wants to give a try to adapting it to
>>> blender (of course with me 100% available for answering questions with
>>> this), i think in a matter of a few hours we can solve the Blender
>> problem
>>> of collada import support. However as I said in previous mails, I really
>>> lack the time to get familiar with Blender internals and do this myself.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Juan Linietsky
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Erwin Coumans <erwin.coumans at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Until Blender has good fbx import or an alternative collada import
>>>> (python?) it would be good to postpone dropping OpenCollada.
>>>> 
>>>>> From the feedback, some people are using the import feature, and there
>>> is
>>>> no replacement.
>>>> 
>>>> Let's hope someone stands up and fixes the issues in trunk, rather then
>>>> branch.
>>>> On Jan 10, 2012 2:15 AM, "Ton Roosendaal" <ton at blender.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Collada conformance suite is not working, and working on it won't
>>>> help
>>>>> anything.
>>>>> I wrote about this here;
>>>>> http://code.blender.org/index.php/2011/10/collada-momentum/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Collada just has no reference stakeholder(s) (like how fbx was native
>>> for
>>>>> motionbuilder).
>>>>> Blender would be the worst stakeholder for it even, since we have the
>>>>> awesome .blend :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Much better stakeholders would be Linden Labs (2nd life), or
>> CryTek...
>>> or
>>>>> Daz? Three names of companies who make plenty of dollars with
>> software
>>>>> licensing. Why don't they put an employee as developer in our team,
>> to
>>>>> ensure Collada exports smoothly for their products?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I even wouldn't mind a (python) addon "Export to DazCollada,
>>> CryCollada,
>>>>> 2ndLifeCollada, etc. It's how collada has been designed to work
>>> anyway...
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Ton-
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Ton Roosendaal  Blender Foundation   ton at blender.org
>>> www.blender.org
>>>>> Blender Institute   Entrepotdok 57A  1018AD Amsterdam   The
>> Netherlands
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10 Jan, 2012, at 0:25, Sebastian wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> COLLADA has a great conformance test suite at
>>>>>> http://www.khronos.org/conformance/implementers/collada/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's being made available for free and I've already seen Blender
>>>> results
>>>>>> uploaded some time ago.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 09.01.2012 23:52, spatial wrote:
>>>>>>>> For the COLLADA community Blender is definitely one of the most
>>>>>>>> important stakeholders to stop supporting COLLADA would make
>> things
>>>> in
>>>>>>>> DCC exchange even worse.
>>>>>>> I agree. Not to mention all those who co use it alongside LW , all
>>> of
>>>>>>> DAZ products....etc.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I actually tried to avoid a discussion here since a long time,
>>>>>>> but topic is too important.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> First, kicking out collada from blender doesn't help anyone. None
>> of
>>>> the
>>>>>>> "common" interexchange formats is that reliable / support all
>>>> features.
>>>>>>> To have at least a second format as a backup strategy,  if a
>> certain
>>>>>>> features arent't supported / have some unreliable results, is a
>>> "must
>>>>>>> have" in every cross application enviroment.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And btw, blenders FBX import is, from my experience, still not as
>>>>>>> reliable as it should be, to actually replace collada. (sorry,
>> this
>>> is
>>>>>>> no actual bashing... its already great what has been archived...
>>>>>>> especially if you consider that it is allways pain in the ass, to
>>>>>>> support such a complex exchange format)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We are currently discussing further financing of OpenCOLLADA and
>>> will
>>>>>>>> spend more time the next months on bugfixing and conformance
>> tests.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry to say this, but this is one of the mayor reasons I have to
>>> post
>>>>> this:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Conformance tests do only help a little to 0
>>>>>>> The big _advantage_ fbx has, is a working reference application
>>> called
>>>>> maya.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No conformance test can actually be that foolproof to support all
>>>>>>> features and variations. So by this simple unoffical agreement,"if
>>> it
>>>>>>> doesn't work in maya - it is broken", users and developers have an
>>>> ideal
>>>>>>> platform to discuss errors / find workarounds.  This greatly
>> avoids
>>>> the
>>>>>>> "picking in the dark" situation all developers currently face with
>>>>>>> collada. Even if a dev doesn't have access to it, in a lot of
>> cases,
>>>> he
>>>>>>> can track down problems reported by users who do provide a simple
>>>>>>> screenshot.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Could this collada reference application be Blender ?
>>>>>>> For me this is a very attractive idea, but also, I'm very aware of
>>> the
>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>> that I'm opening a can of worms I'm actually in no way in the
>> right
>>>>>>> position to touch.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anyway just my 2 cents on this.
>>>>>>> chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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