[Bf-committers] Display modes for 3D-View from user perspective

Ton Roosendaal ton at blender.org
Sun Nov 27 18:19:18 CET 2011


Hi,

I forgot to ask Brecht at the meeting about this... this is important  
to get right for the release at least, without too much regression.

We then can also try two things;

- for now (2.61+) keep things work compatible
- get a redesign proposal for 3d view drawing methods in general

-Ton-

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ton Roosendaal  Blender Foundation   ton at blender.org    www.blender.org
Blender Institute   Entrepotdok 57A  1018AD Amsterdam   The Netherlands

On 27 Nov, 2011, at 17:44, Julio Iglesias wrote:

> Maybe I'm missing some facts, but the way I see it, to make it as  
> simple as
> possible, giving at the same time some versatility, overall changes  
> could
> be:
> - Textured Solid option (could be) out from display/shading, as it  
> can be
> selected in the viewport's shading menu (as seen on the mockup)
> - All viewport texture shading modes (except GLSL*) would still  
> depend on
> what is selected on "display/shading" panel.
> * Meaning "Textured GLSL" would override whatever is selected in
> "display/shading" and viceversa; if GLSL is selected in display/ 
> shading,
> the other viewport tex shading modes would override GLSL mode.
>
> Now, having those new viewport shading options, there might be a point
> where having the "display/shading" panel doesn't make sense anymore,  
> but I
> think it doesn't hurt to leave it as it is at the moment, it might  
> be a bit
> confusing, but you wouldn't even need to go there anyway, since you  
> could
> alternate the most common tex shading options from the viewport menu  
> or
> (ALT/SHIFT/Z) shortcuts.
>
>> Or is TT meant to be lit the old way, using OpenGL
>> predefined lights with multitexture?
>
> Yep, textured would be the same old textured, but I made a mistake  
> on the
> mockup, to avoid confusion and clutter, it should be like this:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2294713/textureshadingmodes2.png
> So if you were currently in shadeless mode, "Textured" would be  
> present
> again.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Tobias Oelgarte <
> tobias.oelgarte at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> A short look at you screenshot/mochup gave me a good impression. I  
>> would
>> really like to see it simplified that way.
>> The only thing that isn't quite clear to me would be the difference
>> between Textured->Textured and Textured->Shadeless. I would assume  
>> that
>> both are the same? Or is TT meant to be lit the old way, using OpenGL
>> predefined lights with multitexture?
>>
>> Currently we have this possible choices (Modes: GS=GLSL,
>> MT=Multitexturing, ST=Singletexturing; Option: TeS=Textured solid):
>>
>> Drawmode  | Mode | TeS | Rendered as:
>> ----------|------|-----|----------------
>> Bounding  |  GS  |     | BoundingBox
>> Bounding  |  GS  |  x  | BoundingBox
>> Bounding  |  MT  |     | BoundingBox
>> Bounding  |  MT  |  x  | BoundingBox
>> Bounding  |  ST  |     | BoundingBox
>> Bounding  |  ST  |  x  | BoundingBox
>> Wireframe |  GS  |     | Wire
>> Wireframe |  GS  |  x  | Wire
>> Wireframe |  MT  |     | Wire
>> Wireframe |  MT  |  x  | Wire
>> Wireframe |  ST  |     | Wire
>> Wireframe |  ST  |  x  | Wire
>> Solid     |  GS  |     | Solid-Shading
>> Solid     |  GS  |  x  | Solid-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>> Solid     |  MT  |     | Solid-Shading
>> Solid     |  MT  |  x  | Solid-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>> Solid     |  ST  |     | Solid-Shading
>> Solid     |  ST  |  x  | Solid-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>> Texture   |  GS  |     | GLSL-Shading + GLSL-Texturing / Nodes
>> Texture   |  GS  |  x  | GLSL-Shading + GLSL-Texturing / Nodes
>> Texture   |  MT  |     | OpenGL-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>> Texture   |  MT  |  x  | OpenGL-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>> Texture   |  ST  |     | OpenGL-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>> Texture   |  ST  |  x  | OpenGL-Shading + Single Texture (active UV  
>> only)
>>
>>
>> That are a whole lot of possible combinations (24), but only a hand  
>> full
>> (6) of actually implemented display modes. What about  
>> Multitexturing? I
>> never saw a single mode supporting it inside the 3D-View.  
>> Additionally i
>> think that the last mode "OpenGL-Shading + Single-Texturing (always
>> active UV only)" is pretty much useless in practice.
>>
>> Greetings from
>> Tobias Oelgarte
>>
>> Am 24.11.2011 17:46, schrieb Julio Iglesias:
>>> I agree, it is a mess right now. Personally I would love something  
>>> like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2294713/textureshadingmodes.png
>>>
>>> As for key mapping, imho, it would be nice to use SHIFT+Z to switch
>> between
>>> all texture shading options (texture, tex solid, shaderless, and  
>>> GLSL)
>>> Also, ALT+Z would switch between wireframe and whatever Texture  
>>> Shading
>>> mode is currently selected.
>>> Same goes for "Z" switching between wireframe and any solid  
>>> shading is
>>> selected.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Tobias Oelgarte<
>>> tobias.oelgarte at googlemail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I noticed some recent changes on how blender renders the content  
>>>> inside
>>>> the 3D-View and at first i thought that it would be a bug in the  
>>>> current
>>>> revisions. So I opened a bug report after some curious postings  
>>>> inside
>>>> blendpolis.de (a well known German community website/forum for  
>>>> blender)
>>>> regarding this recent change. One of the first problems was to  
>>>> figure
>>>> out how to get a shadeless textured view onto a model. Even after
>>>> several tries nobody found a solution. Inside the bug report Brecht
>>>> mentioned that this change was intentional and not a bug. To  
>>>> achieve the
>>>> essential view for texturing/painting the user will now have to  
>>>> move all
>>>> lights to a separate layer and he is forced to hide this layer.  
>>>> Only
>>>> then you will get back to usual shadeless view for texturing. So  
>>>> far the
>>>> current situation.
>>>>
>>>> As I was continuing my work on a model it just felt wrong. I have  
>>>> lights
>>>> spread out on multiple layers and I need this shadeless textured  
>>>> mode
>>>> for projection painting. So what i had to do now? I had to  
>>>> disable all
>>>> light layers (Shift+Click) to be able to continue the texturing  
>>>> and for
>>>> a simple test render i had to enable all this layers again. The  
>>>> problem
>>>> is, that i have to continue all steps over and over again, which  
>>>> simply
>>>> isn't fun anymore. So I was soon forced to step back and to use  
>>>> an older
>>>> version, in which i can just switch from solid to textured for
>>>> painting/texturing and from there to GLSL to get a rough preview.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the current solution is neither suited for beginners  
>>>> (even
>>>> long time users are confused or annoyed) and the additional draw  
>>>> types
>>>> (e.g. solid shaded textured view or plain OpenGL-Lights  
>>>> Multitexture)
>>>> seem pretty useless to me, i came up with two ideas to make the  
>>>> best out
>>>> of it.
>>>>
>>>> Option #1:
>>>> Add an additional checkbox under "Textured Solid", to disable all  
>>>> lights
>>>> and enforce the shadeless, textured mode. It would at least  
>>>> provide a
>>>> convenient way to switch between texturing (as a working step)  
>>>> and the
>>>> GLSL preview.
>>>>
>>>> Option #2 (I would prefer it over #1):
>>>> Remove this options and reduce the display modes to the following  
>>>> set of
>>>> options:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Bounding Box (not affected by anything currently found under the
>>>> GLSL/Multitexture/Singletexture option inside the 3D-View  
>>>> properties)
>>>> 2. Wireframe (as previous mode not affected)
>>>> 3. Solid view (Keep it solid, no textures, the typical view for
>> modeling)
>>>> 4. Only Textures, no Shading. (the typical view for
>> texturing/unwrapping)
>>>> 5. Only Shading, no Textures. (uses GLSL for lighting, but does not
>>>> utilize textures or nodes, fast/rough preview for lighting in  
>>>> scenes,
>>>> could be useful for sculpting)
>>>> 6. Full GLSL (fast preview)
>>>>
>>>> Any other combination did not make much sense to me in the usual
>>>> workflow. Why not reduce the display modes to this set of options,
>>>> instead spreading them over multiple locations (3d-view toolbar,  
>>>> 3d-view
>>>> properties under "Display") or making them even depend on  
>>>> (in)visible
>>>> lights/layers?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes from
>>>> Tobias Oelgarte
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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