[Bf-committers] normal maps, red/green channel inverted

Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com zanqdo at gmail.com
Tue Feb 22 23:24:59 CET 2011


Do I remember right or you not only had to invert some channels but
switch ones? like green with red or something? I only had to do this
once (thankfully)

Daniel Salazar
www.3developer.com



2011/2/22 M.G. Kishalmi <lmg at kishalmi.net>:
> further I plan to add
>
> [invert image colors]
> [invert red channel]
> [invert green channel]
> [invert blue channel]
> [invert alpha channel] ???
>
> operators to the image editor.
> they can be used to adjust old bakes or imported normalmaps
> and might even prove useful under other circumstances.
>
> cheers,
>  mario
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Morten Mikkelsen <mikkelsen7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Before changing everything again, can we go back to the revision that
>>> introduced the change in the first place and maybe understand why it was
>>> done? There was probably a reason, even >if it wasn't a good one,
>>> understanding why might be useful.
>>>
>>
>> We already know exactly what is going on. We know exactly how and why the
>> channels have to be set. I promise you. It will conform to the standard that
>> is most common.
>> The old spaces didn't support a real binormal (meaning +/- sign was not
>> maintained). It was rather broken as it was. It was almost luck whether you
>> got one thing or another.
>> This is also why it was essentially useless for exporting any normal map out
>> of blender.
>> A new system has already been put in place which replaces the generated
>> tangent spaces. These support mirroring and
>> a sign +/-1 to create a bitangent with the correct orientation. This is not
>> something mindlessly thrown in at the last minute.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Sean Olson <seanolson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > From: Sean Olson <seanolson at gmail.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] normal maps, red/green channel inverted
>>> > To: "bf-blender developers" <bf-committers at blender.org>
>>> > Received: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 4:35 PM
>>> > I also could not agree
>>> > more.   Some standardization here would get
>>> > rid of
>>> > plenty of headaches.  To be clear, the step that I
>>> > would like to avoid is
>>> > under:
>>> > "GIMPing the image" on this page:
>>> > http://www.foro3d.com/f217/blender-normal-mapping-76567.html
>>> >
>>> > (It's basically just instructing to invert the green
>>> > channel)
>>> >
>>> > <http://www.foro3d.com/f217/blender-normal-mapping-76567.html>I
>>> > believe it
>>> > worked this way in 2.49 and currently works this way also
>>> > though I have not
>>> > tested very recently.
>>> >
>>> > If I recall the results of the last mailing list
>>> > conversation on this
>>> > subject, the consensus was that there is no 'standard' on
>>> > ways to do normal
>>> > mapping so Blender's is as good as anybody else's, and is
>>> > not technically
>>> > 'wrong'.  The problem is that most of the other apps
>>> > have standardized in
>>> > 'the other method'.  I tried tracking the email thread
>>> > down, but after about
>>> > an hour of digging have given up.
>>> >
>>> > -Sean
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Morten Mikkelsen <mikkelsen7 at gmail.com
>>> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >Make it standard please, nmaps are something
>>> > that you usually share
>>> > > > >between softwares. no point in forcing
>>> > headaches to users
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >Daniel Salazar
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > > May your first born be a son and may your harvest be
>>> > plentiful!! :)
>>> > > I could not agree more. That's exactly why this patch
>>> > needs to go in asap.
>>> > > Normal maps are indeed typically exported between
>>> > tools.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 2011/2/22 Knapp <magick.crow at gmail.com>:
>>> > > > > Just provide an external tool or add-on to
>>> > fix the files. Perhaps pop
>>> > > up
>>> > > > a
>>> > > > > warning: this file has a broken bump-map,
>>> > run XXX to fix it.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Thomas
>>> > Dinges <blender at dingto.de>
>>> > > > wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >> I wouldn't do a hackish button either,
>>> > if it works correct as in 2.49
>>> > > > >> it's fine and all we need.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Am 22.02.2011 19:33, schrieb Ton
>>> > Roosendaal:
>>> > > > >> > Hi all,
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> > The situation is worse apparently;
>>> > up to Blender 2.49 the normal
>>> > > maps
>>> > > > >> > were fine, but the "newbump" patch
>>> > in 2.51 made red channel become
>>> > > > >> > badly inverted.
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> > Having it work like in 2.49 is of
>>> > course correct. Brings up the
>>> > > > >> > question if we should provide a
>>> > hackish button to support bad normal
>>> > > > >> > maps created in the alpha/beta
>>> > period.
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> > Morton's&  Mario's
>>> > proposal is to not do this. I agree, it only
>>> > > makes
>>> > > > >> > UI uglier... :)
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> > -Ton-
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > > >> > Ton Roosendaal  Blender
>>> > Foundation   ton at blender.org
>>> > > > www.blender.org
>>> > > > >> > Blender
>>> > Institute   Entrepotdok 57A  1018AD
>>> > Amsterdam   The
>>> > > > Netherlands
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> > On 20 Feb, 2011, at 14:45, Dalai
>>> > Felinto wrote:
>>> > > > >> >
>>> > > > >> >> Instead of "old Blender Normal
>>> > maps" couldn't it be "invert color
>>> > > > >> >> channels [tooltip: old Blender
>>> > Normal Maps - invert red/green
>>> > > > >> >> channels"? Or Blender was
>>> > really the only software out there using
>>> > > > >> >> those inverted?
>>> > > > >> >>
>>> > > > >> >> I remember this being discussed
>>> > a while ago (1year or +) but don't
>>> > > > >> >> remember what was the outcome
>>> > of it.
>>> > > > >> >>
>>> > > > >> >> --
>>> > > > >> >> Dalai
>>> > > > >> >>
>>> > > > >> >> 2011/2/20 Ton Roosendaal<ton at blender.org>:
>>> > > > >> >>> Hi,
>>> > > > >> >>>
>>> > > > >> >>> I think Carsten's proposal
>>> > is the nicest way, even when a bit
>>> > > > "ugly".
>>> > > > >> >>> We can add a version patch
>>> > in .blend files that sets this button
>>> > > > >> >>> active for all old .blends,
>>> > but not active for newly created
>>> > > > >> >>> textures.
>>> > > > >> >>>
>>> > > > >> >>> -Ton-
>>> > > > >> >>>
>>> > > > >> >>>
>>> > > > >>
>>> > >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > > >> >>> Ton Roosendaal
>>> > Blender Foundation   ton at blender.org
>>> > > > >> www.blender.org
>>> > > > >> >>> Blender
>>> > Institute   Entrepotdok 57A  1018AD
>>> > Amsterdam   The
>>> > > > >> >>> Netherlands
>>> > > > >> >>>
>>> > > > >> >>> On 19 Feb, 2011, at 23:47,
>>> > Carsten Wartmann wrote:
>>> > > > >> >>>
>>> > > > >> >>>> Am 19.02.2011 23:08,
>>> > schrieb Dalai Felinto:
>>> > > > >> >>>>> I wonder if instead
>>> > of a commandline it would be possible to do
>>> > > > >> >>>>> this
>>> > > > >> >>>>> conversion with
>>> > Python. I'm not sure of the current status of
>>> > > bpy
>>> > > > >> >>>>> for
>>> > > > >> >>>>> image handling, but
>>> > it would be neat to have an addon for that.
>>> > > > >> >>>> My idea was having a
>>> > Button inside the Texture Context, Image Tab
>>> > > > >> >>>> (beneath the Normal Map
>>> > Button) to use "old Blender Normal maps".
>>> > > > >> >>>>
>>> > > > >> >>>> Carsten
>>> > > > >> >>>> --
>>> > > > >> >>>> Carsten Wartmann: Autor
>>> > - Dozent - 3D - Grafik
>>> > > > >> >>>> Homepage:
>>> >      http://blenderbuch.de/
>>> > > > >> >>>> Das Blender-Buch: http://blenderbuch.de/redirect.html
>>> > > > >> >>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > > > >> >>>> Bf-committers mailing
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>>> > > > >> >>>
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>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > --
>>> > > > > Douglas E Knapp
>>> > > > >
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