[Bf-committers] Texture assignment workflow is confusing

Damir Prebeg blend.factory at gmail.com
Mon May 10 09:52:06 CEST 2010


Uhm... Please, can you explain "Hard to tell what's going in and what's
coming out"?

On 10 May 2010 09:45, Luke Frisken <l.frisken at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't you think it's a little hard to tell what's going into the
> material and what's coming out with that suggestion?
>
> On 5/10/10, Damir Prebeg <blend.factory at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've started this topic so It's would be rude from me not to suggest
> > something. First of all I like Bassam suggestion about nodes, here is my
> > suggestion how this should look.
> >
> > http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=3202
> >
> > I think image is pretty much self explanatory but if someone need more
> > detailed description I will send it.
> >
> > On top of this, I also like Doug's proposition for sockets witch could be
> > applied for direct assignment of image/tex compund/some-other-node-type
> to
> > Diffuse, Transparency or what ever...
> >
> > Workflow could be like this:
> >
> > I wish to assign some texture (node) to Diffuse channel.
> >
> > I click on a button beside Difuse color and that shows me drop-down
> > selector. In that drop-down I have scrollable list of available node
> types
> > with ability to launch file selector and node editor (Ctrl+click on buton
> > that shows that drop-down would launch node editor automatically after
> some
> > imaga/node is selected)
> >
> >
> > On 9 May 2010 07:43, Doug Ollivier <doug at flipdesign.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Just curious what the next step is to see if this goes anywhere.  Is
> >> it...?
> >>
> >> 1) Have this topic raised at next meeting, to work out if it is
> >> something worth exploring from a user?software structure stand-point
> >> 2) Create a UI proposal exploring the issue and proposing solutions? and
> >> then discussing this at a meeting?
> >>
> >> I assume that because the topic went quiet, that there was agreement (or
> >> not disagreement) with the idea of a Socket type influence system.
> >>
> >> Cheers.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >> On 30/04/2010 1:52 p.m., Doug Ollivier wrote:
> >> > Awesome,  was curious how light-wave did it.
> >> >
> >> > They are all seeming relatively similar with minor differences in
> >> approach.
> >> >
> >> > Any wild cards out there from strange softwares etc?
> >> >
> >> > On 30/04/2010 1:40 p.m., Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Ive suggested this type of texture managing in the past inspired on
> >> >> Lightwave where you can assign a texture or a texture stack to each
> >> >> value
> >> >>
> >> >> Material properties with a T icon to launch texture stack
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.except.nl/lightwave/hdr/images/Surface_notgood_sm.png
> >> >>
> >> >> Texture Stack
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/StainedGlass/SGlassImages/SGlass19B-LayerStack.jpg
> >> >>
> >> >> nice...
> >> >>
> >> >> Daniel Salazar
> >> >> www.3developer.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Doug Ollivier<doug at doug.org.nz>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 30/04/2010 3:49 a.m., Knapp wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> I only use Blender but I was wondering if the other 3d packages
> have
> >> >>>> found a good way to handle this texture/materials problem? Could we
> >> >>>> incorporate some good ideas this way? Why reinvent the wheel? Does
> >> >>>> anyone have a favorite other system? How does it work?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I am not putting down the other ideas given so far, just hoping to
> >> >>>> find all the options before we pick the best.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> For those who have just joined my concept is to move the texture
> >> >>> assignment to the point of control/use/influence when setting up a
> >> >>> material in order to create a semantic/logicial link between action
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> affect : http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=2989
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Note: I dislike submitting ideas and saying they were influenced by
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> big boys, because I find it sometimes elicits a "we don't want to
> >> >>> copy"
> >> >>> response, and forces us to reinvent the wheel due to the pride of
> >> >>> being
> >> >>> independent and creative. However, pride aside, I agree that looking
> >> >>> at
> >> >>> how others have solved a problem, and then improving on their
> >> >>> solutions
> >> >>> is one of the best methods of development, its not revolutionary,
> but
> >> >>> nor were puffer-fish, they evolved from something way less exciting.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'll outline the two softwares that I have used that give any real
> >> >>> control over multiple textures, I am curious what great softwares
> >> others
> >> >>> have used that solve these issues. But to sum it up I found the
> >> >>> easiest
> >> >>> to use ones use a socket type system.  The non-flexible ones with
> nice
> >> >>> results (cad rendering packages) give few if not no options so I
> just
> >> >>> won't mention them.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> *Photoshop 3D tools,*
> >> >>> They use a limited socket type system,  either a colour, or a single
> >> >>> image per value of influence.
> >> >>> I.e. you can choose an image for the reflection channel, colour
> >> channel,
> >> >>> spec channel....
> >> >>> Super easy, pretty limited, but limited in order to be compatible
> with
> >> >>> real-time 3D content in PDF's etc...
> >> >>> Since you are in photoshop you can edit the images, and this is
> where
> >> >>> you can add layers and overlay options etc... to get what you want
> in
> >> >>> terms of further control.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> *Maya (it's been a while, this is from memory)*
> >> >>> Uses something in-between what I am suggesting and the photoshop
> >> >>> approach.  Just like the Blender 2.5 materials panel; each material
> or
> >> >>> setting is broken up into a sub panel that can be turned on/off for
> >> >>> any
> >> >>> one effect (incredibly close to the current Blender layout).
> However,
> >> >>> they use a socket type texture/node/material input to alter various
> >> >>> settings that cannot be controlled simply by a slider or colour
> >> >>> picker.
> >> >>> I believe their implementation is even used to plug in 3rd party
> >> Plugins
> >> >>> like SSS, Ramp, and fresnel effects to the various channels etc...
> >> >>> (not
> >> >>> just textures).  This linked approach also creates a hypergraph
> >> >>> (nodes)
> >> >>> structure.  I had no idea how to use that then so ignored it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My biggest annoyance with the Maya system was getting lost once a
> >> >>> texture has been added, as it dropped you somewhere else in the
> >> >>> interface that you did not expect (a challenge we would need to
> >> >>> overcome, but one I think is possible).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I am glad brecht suggested this or something similar, as he's pretty
> >> >>> on
> >> >>> to it, especially when it comes to getting large numbers of fans.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If this approach is preferred, and is backed up by a development
> goal
> >> >>> from the decision makers (If Ton sanctions exploring it it etc..), I
> >> >>> will be willing to work through interface issues with Matt, and
> >> >>> William
> >> >>> (these are the two people focusing on interface correct?).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The main interface issues to overcome as I can see it are.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ** Materials - how to keep these tabs clean from fluff
> >> >>> ** Texture application settings - Where and how do you edit these
> >> >>> settings that are unique to each material (not to the texture)
> >> >>> ** Texture settings - the traditional 2.4x datablock, how do you get
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> this and back again from a material, and a potential intermediate
> step
> >> >>> ** Adding and mixing - The current system lets you add and mix
> >> >>> multiple
> >> >>> textures, how can this be easily and logically done? (nodes?,
> >> stacks?...)
> >> >>> ** extending into the future... Plugins Etc - I think some of this
> >> >>> will
> >> >>> come for free if this is a natural step towards "nodes everywhere".
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I think there are no issues that cannot be overcome. and I think
> that
> >> >>> old textures can be loaded into a new interface with full
> >> compatibility.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Someone let me know if this warrants further development and I will
> >> look
> >> >>> at creating a more detailed interface flow scenario.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> By trade i'm an Industrial Designer, so can look at usability and
> >> >>> interaction, I'm not a coder unfortunately so cannot help there.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Cheers
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Doug Ollivier
> >> >>>
> >> >>> *C:*    +64 (0)27 412 0807
> >> >>> *P:*    +64 (0)3 980 7197
> >> >>> *E:*    doug at doug.org.nz
> >> >>> *W:*    http://doug.org.nz
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Bf-committers mailing list
> >> >>> Bf-committers at blender.org
> >> >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
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>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> >From Luke
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